Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Short of electronic tags
I'd tag people - phone access, as well as an ankle bracelet
the fuck?
for home isolation...
i get that. you would put electronic tags on a person for just reasons?
that's kinda insane
Nope - opt in for MIQ at home, rather in a facility. You want to avoid a 14 day stay in a hotel and go home - accept a tag.
that's insane
you people have lost your fucking mind
We're not the ones in charge!!!!!
even you dear leader doesn't want to electronically tag people!
Yep, she'd just rather not let you in instead........
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Short of electronic tags
I'd tag people - phone access, as well as an ankle bracelet
the fuck?
for home isolation...
i get that. you would put electronic tags on a person for just reasons?
that's kinda insane
Nope - opt in for MIQ at home, rather in a facility. You want to avoid a 14 day stay in a hotel and go home - accept a tag.
that's insane
you people have lost your fucking mind
We're not the ones in charge!!!!!
even you dear leader doesn't want to electronically tag people!
I was just running with NZZP's statement and hypothesising. MIQ is fucked, there is no way back for thousands of people
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
I totally agree. I'm all for pushing the vax programme through ASAP (lockdown was a wasted opportunity to gear up the vax programme last year). Then loosen the reins and for those who chose not to vax, well they will have to live (or die) with the consequences of their actions
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Short of electronic tags
I'd tag people - phone access, as well as an ankle bracelet
the fuck?
for home isolation...
i get that. you would put electronic tags on a person for just reasons?
that's kinda insane
Nope - opt in for MIQ at home, rather in a facility. You want to avoid a 14 day stay in a hotel and go home - accept a tag.
that's insane
you people have lost your fucking mind
We're not the ones in charge!!!!!
even you dear leader doesn't want to electronically tag people!
I was just running with NZZP's statement and hypothesising. MIQ is fucked, there is no way back for thousands of people
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
I totally agree. I'm all for pushing the vax programme through ASAP (lockdown was a wasted opportunity to gear up the vax programme last year). Then loosen the reins and for those who chose not to vax, well they will have to live (or die) with the consequences of their actions
exactly. this is my exact position.
in 2 months you should be open. So should Qld
I bet neither is. Because reasons.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
As M4L says, once the vax programme is complete, we all should expect to get covid19 and the vax will in most cases keep us out of the hospital system. At that point we will have maximised our immunity for this round. The longer we wait, the more financial and psychological harm, and eventually the virus will move on and we won't have had a chance to contract it in time to take advantage of the first shots
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The images from Melbourne are damn scary, and realisitically we could be only 2-3 months away from similar scenes in NZ
Melbourne is a bit of a red herring really. It all kicked off because an industry who has been working pretty much the entire time that the rest of Melbourne has been locked down were found to be breaching the health orders they were supposed to follow to keep working. Rather than cop to it they decided to do a silly protest (smoko protest). Then later their actual union inspired protest got hijacked by the usual anti vaxx etc rent-a-protest crowd.
Through work I talk to a lot of Melbournians each week and none of them have shown support for that lot.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
I think people are becoming increasingly disgruntled. Whether it will be enough to force a seachange in strategy I'm not convinced. Cindy will make changes if their popularity dives in the polls
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@nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Through work I talk to a lot of Melbournians each week and none of them have shown support for that lot.
That's quite likely - but it only takes a small proportion to really fire up and it gets ugly.
Look at the protests - you have police pepper spraying old ladies, and firing rubber bullets at tradies. All to save them from Covid? It's just insane - and that's my point; another couple of months of lockdown and don't be surprised to see that starting to play out here in NZ as people get fed up and start really breaking rules.
Lockdowns only work if people buy into them. Once some start breaking, it falls down. Your options are mass arrests (really?), mass fines (again, really?) or accepting that they have a limited lifespan
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
I think people are becoming increasingly disgruntled. Whether it will be enough to force a seachange in strategy I'm not convinced. Cindy will make changes if their popularity dives in the polls
that is disgusting. It really fucking is. And we are so willing to brush it off as "just what politicians do" Kind? Open? Transparent? no, the same as everyone else with better branding.
Far too many people in NZ and Qld (the parallels are pretty scary) have convinced themselves that this will all go away if we just hang on long enough. It fucking won't. What we have done is bought some time to get as many people jabbed as possible. Hit the fucking rate, open up, and let the inevitable happen. It will any way, delaying it helps no one.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
I think people are becoming increasingly disgruntled. Whether it will be enough to force a seachange in strategy I'm not convinced. Cindy will make changes if their popularity dives in the polls
that is disgusting. It really fucking is. And we are so willing to brush it off as "just what politicians do" Kind? Open? Transparent? no, the same as everyone else with better branding.
Far too many people in NZ and Qld (the parallels are pretty scary) have convinced themselves that this will all go away if we just hang on long enough. It fucking won't. What we have done is bought some time to get as many people jabbed as possible. Hit the fucking rate, open up, and let the inevitable happen. It will any way, delaying it helps no one.
That is my assumption, to be fair it is more likely they will continue to lean on the MoH a fair bit. And they move painfully slow. But an outcry in the polls would serve as a stick I would suspect. The next test for Auckland will be in a few days. Will she keep us in L3 over the school holidays (a highly unpopular choice I would think), or will she move us to a L2* where we can move around but not leave the region, so the kiddies can get out of the house?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
I think people are becoming increasingly disgruntled. Whether it will be enough to force a seachange in strategy I'm not convinced. Cindy will make changes if their popularity dives in the polls
that is disgusting. It really fucking is. And we are so willing to brush it off as "just what politicians do" Kind? Open? Transparent? no, the same as everyone else with better branding.
Far too many people in NZ and Qld (the parallels are pretty scary) have convinced themselves that this will all go away if we just hang on long enough. It fucking won't. What we have done is bought some time to get as many people jabbed as possible. Hit the fucking rate, open up, and let the inevitable happen. It will any way, delaying it helps no one.
That is my assumption, to be fair it is more likely they will lean on the MoH a fair bit. And they move painfully slow. But an outcry in the polls would serve as a stick I would suspect
anecdotally that outcry is a fair way off. Far too many are deluded about the future, and/or have lost their empathy as long as the can go for a coffee/beer
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
I think people are becoming increasingly disgruntled. Whether it will be enough to force a seachange in strategy I'm not convinced. Cindy will make changes if their popularity dives in the polls
that is disgusting. It really fucking is. And we are so willing to brush it off as "just what politicians do" Kind? Open? Transparent? no, the same as everyone else with better branding.
Far too many people in NZ and Qld (the parallels are pretty scary) have convinced themselves that this will all go away if we just hang on long enough. It fucking won't. What we have done is bought some time to get as many people jabbed as possible. Hit the fucking rate, open up, and let the inevitable happen. It will any way, delaying it helps no one.
That is my assumption, to be fair it is more likely they will lean on the MoH a fair bit. And they move painfully slow. But an outcry in the polls would serve as a stick I would suspect
anecdotally that outcry is a fair way off. Far too many are deluded about the future, and/or have lost their empathy as long as the can go for a coffee/beer
Yup. A long way off. Lets see what she does for the school holidays, as I said above in my edit
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I think this is where there may be a big difference in society between NZ and UK and (imo) Europe. Human rights are enshrined in attitude and law.
I think anti-vax protestors who went out in lockdowns are idiots. I think people who ignore quarantine-at-home are irresponsible.
But if you start suppressing the right to protest (it's happening in the UK to prevent environmental activisism, being fought now), or mandating electronic tagging ... then I will be out on the streets too. Thankfully our legal system is independent and robust still and calls out our current government's excesses, Covid related and otherwise.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
The Fortress NZ mentality and MIQ are absolutely fine for a lot of people because they don't travel overseas either at all or much, so the impact on them is minimal to none, particularly since the Ta$man bubble meant most NZ travellers who wanted to, could get a trip in either direction (Australia is our main travel destination and where most of the overseas Kiwis are).
The economy is doing about as well as anyone could have expected 18 months ago and better than international comparators, so there's not much griping there either.
I agree that a 12 month lockdown is not remotely sustainable, but we're not looking at that at all - either case numbers will drop to an acceptable level or vaccinations will reach a rate that allows an exit from lockdown, and lockdown will end. If people don't like restrictions, then the mantra will continue to be "get vaccinated".
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
The Fortress NZ mentality and MIQ are absolutely fine for a lot of people because they don't travel overseas either at all or much, so the impact on them is minimal to none, particularly since the Ta$man bubble meant most NZ travellers who wanted to, could get a trip in either direction (Australia is our main travel destination and where most of the overseas Kiwis are).
The economy is doing about as well as anyone could have expected 18 months ago and better than international comparators, so there's not much griping there either.
I agree that a 12 month lockdown is not remotely sustainable, but we're not looking at that at all - either case numbers will drop to an acceptable level or vaccinations will reach a rate that allows an exit from lockdown, and lockdown will end. If people don't like restrictions, then the mantra will continue to be "get vaccinated".
lol righto
what's that acceptable level again? and when will the borders open again?
Also isn't your economy humming on Government money and property prices?
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders. If you don't open then, you are never opening.
If I were a benevolent dictator, I'd take that route. But I'm not (dammnit).
Given where we are, Covid's going to make its way through the community. I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ. And yeah, the risk equation fundamentally shifts with a vaccine ... but it ain't changing in the near future
i absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
The Fortress NZ mentality and MIQ are absolutely fine for a lot of people because they don't travel overseas either at all or much, so the impact on them is minimal to none, particularly since the Ta$man bubble meant most NZ travellers who wanted to, could get a trip in either direction (Australia is our main travel destination and where most of the overseas Kiwis are).
The economy is doing about as well as anyone could have expected 18 months ago and better than international comparators, so there's not much griping there either.
I agree that a 12 month lockdown is not remotely sustainable, but we're not looking at that at all - either case numbers will drop to an acceptable level or vaccinations will reach a rate that allows an exit from lockdown, and lockdown will end. If people don't like restrictions, then the mantra will continue to be "get vaccinated".
This is the only out I see. Anyone who chooses not to, it's on them. For the rest of us, it's time to go back to work and try to live some form of normal life
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@canefan I have seen things about incentivising people to get vaccinated, how about employers do this by saying it is your choice to not get vaccinated; however, if you get sick from an illness that could have been vaccinated against (flu, covid, polio, small pox...) you dont get paid sick leave (obviously if you are vaccinated and still get sick from it, sick pay still kicks in)
Expect employment contracts would require some work....
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan I have seen things about incentivising people to get vaccinated, how about employers do this by saying it is your choice to not get vaccinated; however, if you get sick from an illness that could have been vaccinated against (flu, covid, polio, small pox...) you dont get paid sick leave (obviously if you are vaccinated and still get sick from it, sick pay still kicks in)
Expect employment contracts would require some work....
The lawyers are excited by this