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Quality rant and if it turns out it was just an unprovoked attack from someone looking for a fight you are bang on. We don't actually know that yet though, so that's just an assumption.
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provoked or not, if the fact about him stomping on an unconscious dudes head is true, then something like that deserves a spell behind bars.
While plenty of incidents are jail worthy, jail may not be the best for the person, so can appreciate the judge using discretion in some instances, but to escape without conviction seems so wrong, IF the facts are as presented - I guess this is where our media need to be held to account and ensure they are presenting facts.
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@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
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@taniwharugby said in Appalling double-standard:
provoked or not, if the fact about him stomping on an unconscious dudes head is true, then something like that deserves a spell behind bars.
While plenty of incidents are jail worthy, jail may not be the best for the person, so can appreciate the judge using discretion in some instances, but to escape without conviction seems so wrong, IF the facts are as presented - I guess this is where our media need to be held to account and ensure they are presenting facts.
Absolutely. And I'm playing devils advocate here, but the key word there is IF.
We've heard the account from the victims, which would have been (I assume) the same account they gave in court. But then the judge heard the account from the accused. So got both sides of the story, which is largely hearsay based on drunk people's memories of what happened. He then weighed up all of the facts, mitigating factors, people's past history and potential to reoffend, punishment which includes Losi's name being made public, and came to a decision that (by the looks) benefits society rather then the victims desire for retribution. If the soliciter-general does not agree then the decision can be appealed. Thankfully our justice system is largely free of corruption.
In summary: fuck being a judge.
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Without commenting on the appropriateness or otherwise of the sentence, diversion is normally done by the police and typically involves dropping the charges for a first offender provided certain criteria are met.
Discharge without conviction is at the discretion of the judge, and can be given for any offense(s) without a minimum sentence, which is why DIC/DUI/EBA doesn't normally get it. The common reason for discharging without conviction in these cases is because the conviction would cost the offenders the ability to get contracts to play overseas (whether Super rugby or international because of the travelling, or simply to play pro rugby overseas e.g. in Europe), which is seen as disproportionate to the offending. The case law on the subject effectively views a conviction as a fine for the lost earnings, which could easily be hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars over 10-15 years for a young player relative to their earnings, particularly if they come from a lower socio-economic background.
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@Bovidae said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
That might be a minefield given he was discharged without a conviction, and we are talking about his livelihood. Employment Law can be a bitch to navigate, so it might be a case of NZR having their bed made for them in this instance.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so could be talking my usual bollocks
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Pretty sensible article from Rachel Smalley on the Herald:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11717472
The judge said if he was to follow conventional sentencing, then he would start from a position of 18 months in prison. But the judge didn't follow a conventional sentencing. Instead, he released Filipo without conviction. And this is what the judge said. "I have to ask myself are the courts in the business of destroying people's career prospects?" The judge felt that a prison sentence would serve no purpose, and it would be in Filipo's long-term interests to be allowed to continue his playing career. A prison sentence would cut that career short. It's an extraordinary case, isn't it? Polarising. But if it's possible to take the emotion out of this, it's clear what the judge is trying to do here. If you put Losi Filipo in prison, that will change the course of his life. His career prospects will be limited. His rugby career will end the moment he walks into jail. If he spends time behind bars, that will possibly fast-track him into a life of crime. Violent crime, too. If, however, he enters the New Zealand rugby system, then he'll be offered an umbrella that will provide structure, guidance, and discipline. And a chance to right the wrongs of his teens. I'm not suggesting that's right, but I can understand this judge's position on this. But if you're one of the four who were assaulted, what does justice look like to you right now? And in particular, to the young man who's playing career has been cut short? That young man who has only just started working again and who continues to suffer migraines and chronic fatigue. Life is pretty miserable, for him. So where do you sit on this? Do you place Losi Filipo in an environment where potentially he can turn his life around. Or do you bang him up in jail, ending his career prospects, and then potentially watch him spend the next 60 years of his life bouncing in and out of our justice system at enormous cost to the country and the taxpayer? What's your take?
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@mariner4life said in Appalling double-standard:
@Bovidae said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
That might be a minefield given he was discharged without a conviction, and we are talking about his livelihood. Employment Law can be a bitch to navigate, so it might be a case of NZR having their bed made for them in this instance.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so could be talking my usual bollocks
Always difficult, although arguably he has brought rugby into disrepute, so there's that angle. I doubt it will end his career though - more likely to be a written warning and he'll be required to undertake the rugby equivalent of community service.
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@Bovidae said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
what exactly are the NZRU supposed to do here - according to the courts this guy is in the clear.
surely if they took action it would leave them open to a legal challenge? No different from if my work took some action against me for something that took place when I wasn't in their employment that I was then cleared about.
The NZRFU keeps getting pointed at to act differently but at the end of the day they're no different from any other employer.
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@No-Quarter said in Appalling double-standard:
Pretty sensible article from Rachel Smalley on the Herald:
If you put Losi Filipo in prison, that will change the course of his life. His career prospects will be limited. His rugby career will end the moment he walks into jail. If he spends time behind bars, that will possibly fast-track him into a life of crime. Violent crime, too. If, however, he enters the New Zealand rugby system, then he'll be offered an umbrella that will provide structure, guidance, and discipline. And a chance to right the wrongs of his teens.
I'm not suggesting that's right, but I can understand this judge's position on this.
But if you're one of the four who were assaulted, what does justice look like to you right now?
And in particular, to the young man who's playing career has been cut short? That young man who has only just started working again and who continues to suffer migraines and chronic fatigue. Life is pretty miserable, for him.
So where do you sit on this? Do you place Losi Filipo in an environment where potentially he can turn his life around. Or do you bang him up in jail, ending his career prospects, and then potentially watch him spend the next 60 years of his life bouncing in and out of our justice system at enormous cost to the country and the taxpayer?
What's your take?
I totally agree with what she's saying RE: prison etc.
my issue with it is that he has totally escaped any form of punishment!
10k reparation for each victim would be a starting point...
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and now that I just opened the nzherald this guy is about to have the entire wrath of nz imposed on him cause the female victim is a smokin hot little blondy.
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@WillieTheWaiter pics please
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
@No-Quarter said in Appalling double-standard:
Pretty sensible article from Rachel Smalley on the Herald:
If you put Losi Filipo in prison, that will change the course of his life. His career prospects will be limited. His rugby career will end the moment he walks into jail. If he spends time behind bars, that will possibly fast-track him into a life of crime. Violent crime, too. If, however, he enters the New Zealand rugby system, then he'll be offered an umbrella that will provide structure, guidance, and discipline. And a chance to right the wrongs of his teens.
I'm not suggesting that's right, but I can understand this judge's position on this.
But if you're one of the four who were assaulted, what does justice look like to you right now?
And in particular, to the young man who's playing career has been cut short? That young man who has only just started working again and who continues to suffer migraines and chronic fatigue. Life is pretty miserable, for him.
So where do you sit on this? Do you place Losi Filipo in an environment where potentially he can turn his life around. Or do you bang him up in jail, ending his career prospects, and then potentially watch him spend the next 60 years of his life bouncing in and out of our justice system at enormous cost to the country and the taxpayer?
What's your take?
I totally agree with what she's saying RE: prison etc.
my issue with it is that he has totally escaped any form of punishment!
10k reparation for each victim would be a starting point...
Yeah fair enough, you'd think damages would be a given considering the ongoing impacts to the victims health.
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@WillieTheWaiter based on that hangings too good for him .
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@jegga best part about the herald article is that the article under it is an story on the guy who punched Charlie F's wife going to jail... that was a lot less worse than the above, at least she ran over his kid with her car so there were 'circumstances'.
Moral of story, be a FAB, no jail, punch someone related to an AB and be 'joe bloggs' jail.
obviously that's not the full story but that's exactly how it looks to the public and that somehow it's all the nzrfus doing.
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
This farks me off because of the way this is dragging 'rugby' through the mud - when in fact it's got fark all to do with it.
Wellington are between a rock and a hard place because it's not up to them to be the judge on this - that's up to, you know, the actual judge so as far as they're concerned he's in the clear - but sheesh there's going to be some repercussions from the fans I'm sure.
Actually, Wellington Rugby does have a role here. Now that the judicial process has ended, they can decide whether to keep him on their books or not. If they don't rip up his contract, they can still decide whether to let him play or not.
Hopefully the people of Wellington will show their feelings towards the Mayor who wrote a letter of support in the upcoming elections as well...
Actually, it was the Mayor of Upper Hutt, not Wellington.
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Under what grounds could they terminate his contract?
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@Hooroo said in Appalling double-standard:
Under what grounds could they terminate his contract?
As far as I know, being "discharged without conviction" doesn't mean you are 'not guilty'. Criminal law and employment law are two different beasts that (I think) require different degrees of proof, culpability. I'm not an employment lawyer, but I can imagine that employees (ie, contracted rugby players) must meet certain requirements like not damaging your employer's business. Wellington Rugby could lose sponsors, members etc over this. It could hurt them financially. I can imagine that if an employee can be held liable for that damage, he could get fired. But as I said, I'm not an employment lawyer. That's why I added that if he stays in their employment, they can still decide not to let him play for the Lions and could either not let him play at all, or demote him to the Development team (which has finished its competition for the season).
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The Judge's Notes are in this article:
Appalling double-standard