Los Pumas vs Springboks
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do we know what sqaud SA are sending (sent) are they sending players form SA and allowing some of those in NZ last week a rest or is it gonna be full strength.
Should be a good game.
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@taniwharugby I understand from this article that they have sent their full squad to Argentina.
Almost half of the squad and management are set to travel to Argentina later on Friday night from Auckland, while the rest of the South African travelling party is due to fly out to Buenos Aires on Sunday. The full squad will train together again on Monday morning in the Argentine capital, where the South Africans will be staying until next Thursday before flying out to Salta.(This article can also be found on the Springboks website, but there's something wrong with their code, so it looks shit and you can't read the whole article on that site.)
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Bok team announcement only due on Wednesday afternoon (SA time - so probably the early hours of Thursday morning for you kiwis).
But the expectation is that Rassie will put out a pretty-much full-strength side. The Argies in Argentina are a tough nut. We saw our backsides there last year if I recall correctly.
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@Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
Bok team announcement only due on Wednesday afternoon (SA time - so probably the early hours of Thursday morning for you kiwis).
Good.
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@Stargazer said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
So Agustin Creevy back from injury, Guido Petti moved to the bench and TomĂ¡s Lavanini rested, with MatĂas Alemanno and Marcos Kremer getting a start instead. Emiliano Boffelli also back.
Matias Orlando also not considered due to minor injury/rest
Plus the return of Gonzalo Bertranou from log term injury Had a few games for Jaguares XV in CC to get fit again
Return of Benjamin Urdapilleta to Int'l rugby after 6 year absence is something to look out for
Guy has a good record with Castres in Top 14
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South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cheslin Kolbe, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen (captain),7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Kwagga Smith, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Trevor Nyakane, 2 Bongi Mbonambi, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Malcolm Marx, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Francois Louw, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Frans Steyn, 23 Jesse Kriel -
@Daffy-Jaffy pretty handy team, if not their top 15, close to their top 23
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It's their best Matchday 23 minus Siya Kolisi and Elton Jantjes
Boks aren't fucking about with their squad vs Los Pumas in Salta
I suspect things will be much changed in Pretoria
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@Machpants said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Daffy-Jaffy pretty handy team, if not their top 15, close to their top 23
What about their injured winger dyantji??
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@Billy-Tell said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Machpants said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Daffy-Jaffy pretty handy team, if not their top 15, close to their top 23
What about their injured winger dyantji??
Yeah. He would certainly be in a best Bok XV currently.
Add Kolisi and Lood de Jager and that's probably the top crop currently.Not sure who you leave out of the 23 though.
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@Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Machpants said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Daffy-Jaffy pretty handy team, if not their top 15, close to their top 23
What about their injured winger dyantji??
Yeah. He would certainly be in a best Bok XV currently.
Add Kolisi and Lood de Jager and that's probably the top crop currently.Not sure who you leave out of the 23 though.
May I suggest that new halfback? He's terrible...
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So, if the Boks lose this one are their WC plans down the toilet. Because after the draw against the ABs they were right on song and looking the business.
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@ACT-Crusader while it certainly won't aid the cause if the Boks lose, not a complete RWC train smash if they do. Boks are a long way from the finished article and will hopefully continue to improve. Whether they improve enough in time for the RWC is of course the tricky question.
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@antipodean said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Billy-Tell said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Machpants said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Daffy-Jaffy pretty handy team, if not their top 15, close to their top 23
What about their injured winger dyantji??
Yeah. He would certainly be in a best Bok XV currently.
Add Kolisi and Lood de Jager and that's probably the top crop currently.Not sure who you leave out of the 23 though.
May I suggest that new halfback? He's terrible...
Hahaha. he's been a real find. 12 months ago there was just Faf and then ... nada. Now we have 2 decent scrumhalves. And Cobus Reinach is also back in the mix - apparently a much improved player from his stint up north. But I'll withold judgement on that until I see it.
More worrying for me is at flyhalf. After Pollard, the cupboard stocks don't fill me with confidence.
Oh and let me add some more of my worries: our centre pairing is hardly settled. No-one is definitively putting their hand up and becoming a must-pick. Boks need some serious improvement there too.
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Comprehensive SA victory there. They are my favourites for the RWC.
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@Billy-Tell said in Pre-RWC test matches:
Comprehensive SA victory there. They are my favourites for the RWC.
Steady on Billy
Boks were good but Pumas were utterly abject again
Relatively easy to win games when scrum can be used to win penalties and easy territory
Pumas were never in the game after 1st quarterBoks will struggle in attack once opponents gain parity at scrum time
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SA arent exactly a dark horse, but they seem to be coming into form at the right time, similarly if Aus last night wasnt a perfect storm of them just having a good day and us not...cup looks wide open.
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Congratulations to the Boks for their first major silverware in ten years.
South Africa and Wales as the champions of the Southern Hemisphere and Europe are the joint RWC favourites in my humble opinion.
Then not much between Ireland, NZ, England and Australia. Open tournament.
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South Africa get handed the curse , no team has ever won this comp and the World Cup in the same year.
Not that I believe it means anything in reality, but it is interesting how it has worked out so far.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
South Africa get handed the curse , no team has ever won this comp and the World Cup in the same year.
Not that I believe it means anything in reality, but it is interesting how it has worked out so far.
I am going with you on this.
Not that I ever considered us - the Boks - to be any sort of favourites for the RWC anyway, but at least now we have decent albatross to point to: The curse of the Rugby Championship title
But what I am pleased about is that the Boks are starting to play better rugby again. It's been a tough bunch of seasons dating back to pretty much 2009.
Still a bunch of improvements possible though. Hope they keep getting better.
Saw some promising signs with the de Allende - Am combination which has been missing imo to date.
I'd also like to see Willie le Roux a bit more involved on attack. He's been a bit quiet.Pack looks good. No. 6 (7 for you non-Saffas) still a bit undecided for me. Would be nice to have Kolisi back in the mix.
I guess the other option is a combination of Francois Louw, PS du Toit and Vermeaulen which isn't too shabby. -
Funny isn't it - with all the navel gazing that is happening here and around the internet about the All Blacks, the boks aren't shit hot either.
Our midfield will be seriously average, no matter who we choose - and Steyn is not the answer. Willie le Roux has been poor in both games so far (second play maker mucking up and kicking too much; sounds familiar doesn't it). Faf was also terrible on the weekend. Vermeulen has been quiet and we don't know who our six should be. The line-out is a weakness despite playing four jumpers and our first choice tight head is a pot plant...
And still we deservedly won the Rugby Championship for the first time in a decade.
What South Africa does have going at the moment a great tight five. Plus four great replacements to keep the physicality up in the second. We were only in a position to draw the game in Wellington because the Springbok reserve frontrow won us that scrum penalty to set up the final attack.
The defence is unconventional, but it works for this team. Even in the all black game where New Zealand found space on the outside, we scrambled and worked well to keep them to one try from turnover ball and not a lot else.
The boks also got lucky - against australia we should have conceded two more tries but for unforced errors and then we benefited from a brainsnap in the form of their yellow card. New Zealand were uncharacteristically untidy in Wellington in the first half. And against Argentina I felt we got the rub of the green (and every other colour) from a characteristically untidy Poite.
To Billy Webb's point about the loose-trio - though Smith hasn't yet had a massive game with the two shots he has been given I think he offers more than Louw or Coetzee. I would go with Kolisi, Du Toit and Vermeulen, with Smith to do the Savea role off the bench.
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@SidBarret I mostly agree with this.
As for loosies, I think the plan is Kolisi, PSDT and Duane with Louw on the bench. That’s why Louw started at 8 against Oz and we finished the Argie game with the big bopper back row of Louw at 8, PSDT and Mostert.
All of that gives Rassie the option of Louw replacing Kolisi or Vermeulen depending on circumstance.
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@SidBarret welcome back mate.
All the teams I have watched SH and NH, they all have issues. Some may seem at this point to have worst issues than others, but whether momentum plays any part in the RWC we really only know once the knock out games start.
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@Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
Pack looks good.
First time I read that as "Pact looks good" and thought well you really are favourites then.
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@SidBarret said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
The line-out is a weakness despite playing four jumpers and our first choice tight head is a pot plant...
Glad you raised this.
It has started to concern me too. In that last game against Argie, it felt to me like Mbonambi would throw exclusively to Duane at around 4, and then Marx just to Etzebeth at 2.
So much so that I joked to a friend that these were probably the practice combinations.
Would definitely be an area the Boks need to work on, because if an armchair "expert" like myself starts picking it up, you can be sure brighter rugby minds in opposing teams have planned to target the Boks here. -
@Snowy said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
@Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
Pack looks good.
First time I read that as "Pact looks good" and thought well you really are favourites then.
Hahaha.
No definite news on Pact yet. Apparently it was last seen playing a round of golf with Aura.
Last known scores were that they both level par. -
The Springbok team to play Argentina in Pretoria (in order of name, franchise or club, caps and points) is:
15 Warrick Gelant (Vodacom Bulls), 6, 5 (1t)
14 Sbu Nkosi (Cell C Sharks), 7, 25 (5t)
13 Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls), 43, 60 (12t)
12 André Esterhuizen (Cell C Sharks), 7, 0
11 Dillyn Leyds (DHL Western Province), 9 5 (1t)
10 Elton Jantjies (vice-captain – Emirates Lions), 34, 239 (2t, 47c, 45p)
9 Cobus Reinach (Northampton, England), 11, 15 (3t)
8 Marcell Coetzee (Ulster, Northern Ireland) 29, 30 (6t)
7 Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse, France), 1, 0
6 Siya Kolisi (DHL Western Province), 41, 25 (5t)
5 Lood de Jager (Vodacom Bulls), 39, 25 (5t)
4 RG Snyman (Vodacom Bulls), 14, 0
3 Vincent Koch (Saracens, England), 14, 0
2 Schalk Brits (captain – Vodacom Bulls), 12, 5 (1t)
1 Thomas du Toit (Cell C Sharks), 9, 0
Replacements:
16 Scarra Ntubeni (DHL Western Province), uncapped
17 Lizo Gqoboka (Vodacom Bulls), 1, 0
18 Wilco Louw (DHL Western Province), 12, 0
19 Marvin Orie (Emirates Lions), 2, 0
20 Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls), 2, 0
21 Kwagga Smith (Emirates Lions), 3, 0
22 Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England), 23, 15 (3t)
23 Frans Steyn (Montpellier, France) 59, 132 (10t, 5c, 21p, 3d)
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So Rassie has gone with a fresh team. Will be interesting to see how well they all gel together.
I guess this is the last moment to put a hand up for inclusion to Japan.Of that lot, I'd say the following probably have a plane ticket:
Gelandt (15)
Kriel (13)
Jantjies (10)
Kolisi (6)
de Jager (5)
Snyman (4)
de Klerk (22)
Steyn (23)Fringe I would say would be: Kwagga Smith
The rest have it all to play for.
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@ACT-Crusader Thanks mate, I never really left, I have just not been lurking about.
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@Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
So Rassie has gone with a fresh team. Will be interesting to see how well they all gel together.
I guess this is the last moment to put a hand up for inclusion to Japan.Of that lot, I'd say the following probably have a plane ticket:
Gelandt (15)
Kriel (13)
Jantjies (10)
Kolisi (6)
de Jager (5)
Snyman (4)
de Klerk (22)
Steyn (23)Fringe I would say would be: Kwagga Smith
The rest have it all to play for.
I think the squad is pretty much decided on already.
For me the question is around who the fifth prop will be and whether they will go with 5 loosies and two fullbacks or 6 loosies and only Le Roux (Kolbe and Kriel have both played there enough to get us through the pool games).
I willing bet the house on final squad being something very close to...
Le Roux (Gelant)
Kolbe, Mapimpi, Nkosi
Am, Kriel, De Allende, Steyn
Pollard, Jantjies
De Klerk, Jantjies, Reinach
Vermeulen, Du Toit, Kolisi, Louw, Smith (Coetzee)
Etsebeth, Mostert, Snyman, De Jager
Malherbe, Nyakane,
Marx, Mbonambi, Brits
Mtawarira, Kitshoff, Gqoboka -
Pretty much my thinking too.
Although not sure I agree with Gqoboka. I reckon they will take Koch. Call it a hunch.
I think Gelandt will make the trip but I would actually prefer we take another loosie or prop.
As you point out, there is fullback cover with Kolbe and Kriel and Frans Steyn even.Only other name missing is Aphiwe Dyantyi. If he is fit in time (and it looks like it is touch-and-go) then he will be included. Possibly at the expense of Cobus Reinach I'd wager. Kolbe did a good enough ambulance job at 9 to warrant taking only two 9's.
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Re Koch - I would prefer they go with an extra tight-head. 1) Nyakane can cover both sides so going in with 2 and half of each gives us more scope to manage the props' workload and 2) I really don't rate Malherbe and would like to have the option of dropping him from the strongest side.
But I think they will go with Gqoboka to help with the "numbers". Gqoboka is a great player who is unfortunate to be behind Kitshoff and Beast. It wouldn't be an undeserved selection, but probably not the best thing for the team.
If Dyanti can prove form and fitness he will probably take Nkosi's spot I think.
I see England have gone with only two scrumhalves and for a pool game Kolbe is fine as cover, but come the knock out rounds I would be super nervous about a scrummy going down in the week before the game. Also, like the with the props, the reserve scrumhalf with get plenty of minutes in pool rounds, so it would be nice to rotate Jantjes and De Klerk out of the 23.
You mention bringing in a another loosie, but it is case of who? It seems weird to say this, but where are the big blidside/8s at the moment? Smith, Louw, Kolisi and Coetzee are all primarily opensides. I am a little concerned about the minutes that Vermeulen and Du Toit will have to play. Whiteley is confirm as being out (I think) and the Du Preez brothers seem to be out of the mix. Rassie is having a look at Elstadt, but I just don't see it.
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What SA have is a game plan they understand and believe in.
That's not to be sniffed at. I wish we had that.
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@SidBarret said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:
Re Koch - I would prefer they go with an extra tight-head. 1) Nyakane can cover both sides so going in with 2 and half of each gives us more scope to manage the props' workload and 2) I really don't rate Malherbe and would like to have the option of dropping him from the strongest side.
But I think they will go with Gqoboka to help with the "numbers". Gqoboka is a great player who is unfortunate to be behind Kitshoff and Beast. It wouldn't be an undeserved selection, but probably not the best thing for the team.
If Dyanti can prove form and fitness he will probably take Nkosi's spot I think.
I see England have gone with only two scrumhalves and for a pool game Kolbe is fine as cover, but come the knock out rounds I would be super nervous about a scrummy going down in the week before the game. Also, like the with the props, the reserve scrumhalf with get plenty of minutes in pool rounds, so it would be nice to rotate Jantjes and De Klerk out of the 23.
You mention bringing in a another loosie, but it is case of who? It seems weird to say this, but where are the big blidside/8s at the moment? Smith, Louw, Kolisi and Coetzee are all primarily opensides. I am a little concerned about the minutes that Vermeulen and Du Toit will have to play. Whiteley is confirm as being out (I think) and the Du Preez brothers seem to be out of the mix. Rassie is having a look at Elstadt, but I just don't see it.
While we differ a bit on some calls - I can't fault your logic.
To add to your thoughts on loosies: Elstadt wouldn't be a good call for me either. And I am not a fan of the du Preez brothers. Even if Whiteley was fit in time - and this seems unlikely - he doesn't easily balance the loose trio although he at least gives the squad a second specialist no. 8. What has happened to our other blindside bruisers?!
Erasmus satisfied with outcome of Bok camp in Auckland
