Coronavirus - Overall
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Our economy has never shut down - even at Lvl 4 it was functioning at 60%
We do not have to have a lockdown every time there is a case40% is terrible. And how many of the 40% will never recover. And how many jobs will be lost
And if it makes you feel better I will call it the yearly virus. (As this contagious respiratory illnesses virus has been given a different name)
Influenza (Flu) and COVID-19 are both contagious respiratory illnesses, but they are caused by different viruses. COVID-19 is caused by infection with a new coronavirus (called SARS-CoV-2) and flu is caused by infection with influenza viruses.
I fear and strongly dislike the nanny state. Likewise our right and freedoms being removed to make us safer. Its a path to disaster IMO. Worryingly far to many are willing to accept (and justify) this path
-
@Nepia I focussed on rest homes because they really have no choice but to be where they are, and they need lots of assistance. The rest, the retiree clusters, with some extra support I see no reason why they shouldn't take more steps to isolate. Everything can be delivered nowadays, isn't it better we ask a very small portion of the non-productive part of the economy to step back for the good of generations to come? I truly hope I'd make that choice as a 65+yr old.
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger What would be worrying is if everyone was sipping the same kool aid that you are
Darwinism should usually correct things. But those evil pharmaceutical and medical cartels keep the kooks alive
-
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I focussed on rest homes because they really have no choice but to be where they are, and they need lots of assistance. The rest, the retiree clusters, with some extra support I see no reason why they shouldn't take more steps to isolate. Everything can be delivered nowadays, isn't it better we ask a very small portion of the non-productive part of the economy to step back for the good of generations to come? I truly hope I'd make that choice as a 65+yr old.
Yeah of course the over 65s can take a few more steps to isolate if need be, but the risk doesn't drop to zero. It's not like they can stop accessing medical care etc.
I think it's also a misnomer to call them an unproductive part of the economy, they may not be working a lot of them are spending a decent amount of money (we need them to spend that baby boomer property money ).
I don't think it's a simple solution but I think the OZ/NZ approach of trying to eliminate community spread (not elimination as that's impossible without completely closed borders) is relatively successful and we're keeping our deaths down.
And quite frankly I don't buy into the older deaths are ok to protect the younger. I want us to protect our old now, and I'm confident we can come up with ways to manage things moving forward. Mental health has been mentioned a lot of times in these threads, and I was watching 'normal' tv for some reason the other day and saw a Covid targeted ad for Beyond Blue (mental health services) during every ad break, so I don't think the govts are resting on their laurels.
-
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
-
The assumption of non-productive elderly has me thinking of Marilyn Waring's work on "counting for nothing", as well as my own observations of how many grandparents I've seen enabling families to go back to work thanks to childcare etc. Especially into low to mid paying roles where the cost of childcare barely makes it worthwhile going back to the productive economy as soon otherwise.
I can think of a number of community services that will look quite different if even some of their 65+ year old volunteers nobly step back to save the social lives of the "young" (who are often the people they're helping). Citizens Advice Bureau being one that I work in with closely, but there are plenty more.
A lot of that won't show up explicitly in the GDP stats, but just as not all retirees are in rest homes, not all are non-productive either.
I don't have many better solutions, but like @barbarian and others I'm wary of the idea that there's some sort of magic wand to wall off the vulnerable. Societies (and families) have never been that compartmentalised.
-
I think the lower suicide rate was expected to an extent - for all of those reasons of people checking in etc. The risk rises in the coming months when society reverts more to 'normal' while people are still dealing with the ongoing stress and fallout etc. This was post-Christchurch:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10747586
-
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
Amazing how the threat of serious bodily harm to yourself and the wider community can help some people put their first world problems into greater perspective
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
Amazing how the threat of serious bodily harm to yourself and the wider community can help some people put their first world problems into greater perspective
Off topic, but my dentist mate made the decision to ditch Sydney and the current sporadic work situation (he's only been able to work out of one of the three clinics he used to work from) do his Masters dentistry ... in London.
He's heading over in a couple of months - the other option for him was Melbourne Uni and that was supposed to start July but he didn't get accepted for this round.
-
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
Amazing how the threat of serious bodily harm to yourself and the wider community can help some people put their first world problems into greater perspective
Off topic, but my dentist mate made the decision to ditch Sydney and the current sporadic work situation (he's only been able to work out of one of the three clinics he used to work from) do his Masters dentistry ... in London.
He's heading over in a couple of months - the other option for him was Melbourne Uni and that was supposed to start July but he didn't get accepted for this round.
Makes sense to do his post grad at a time when there is economic uncertainty
-
Looked out of sheer interest: 183,100 people employed in NZ in the June quarter were aged 65+, out of a total paid employment number of 2,654,000. So 6.9% of all NZ employees at that stage.
(https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/labour-market-statistics-june-2020-quarter).
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
Amazing how the threat of serious bodily harm to yourself and the wider community can help some people put their first world problems into greater perspective
Off topic, but my dentist mate made the decision to ditch Sydney and the current sporadic work situation (he's only been able to work out of one of the three clinics he used to work from) do his Masters dentistry ... in London.
He's heading over in a couple of months - the other option for him was Melbourne Uni and that was supposed to start July but he didn't get accepted for this round.
Makes sense to do his post grad at a time when there is economic uncertainty
Yep, but I wouldn't want to be heading to the UK just yet, plus he's probably not going to be able to see his parents before he goes as they're in WA ... so could be three years before he sees them again.
-
@Donsteppa yeah I have a number of charitable organizations that i deal with as well as sports clubs and people involved (committes, volunteers) are quite often older people.
-
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I don't have many better solutions, but like @barbarian and others I'm wary of the idea that there's some sort of magic wand to wall off the vulnerable. Societies (and families) have never been that compartmentalised.
It's the classic 'simple solution to a complex problem'.
The troubling truth at the heart of all of this is maybe, just maybe, Governments made the best decisions they could with the information presented to them by medical experts and others. And most of those decisions have worked out about as well as could be hoped.
-
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia I heard today that suicide rates in NZ are at 3yr lows so that's obvs great (and unexpected!).
Yeah, that's a weird anomaly ... but as you say that's great.
I wonder if because we're going through an "event" that someone who is suffering can rationalise that maybe things aren't as bad for them personally as they would under normal conditions?
Amazing how the threat of serious bodily harm to yourself and the wider community can help some people put their first world problems into greater perspective
Off topic, but my dentist mate made the decision to ditch Sydney and the current sporadic work situation (he's only been able to work out of one of the three clinics he used to work from) do his Masters dentistry ... in London.
He's heading over in a couple of months - the other option for him was Melbourne Uni and that was supposed to start July but he didn't get accepted for this round.
Makes sense to do his post grad at a time when there is economic uncertainty
Yep, but I wouldn't want to be heading to the UK just yet, plus he's probably not going to be able to see his parents before he goes as they're in WA ... so could be three years before he sees them again.
Big decision thats for sure. I'm not sure I'd go. But if I was single with no kids who knows?
-
@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The assumption of non-productive elderly has me thinking of Marilyn Waring's work on "counting for nothing", as well as my own observations of how many grandparents I've seen enabling families to go back to work thanks to childcare etc. Especially into low to mid paying roles where the cost of childcare barely makes it worthwhile going back to the productive economy as soon otherwise.
I can think of a number of community services that will look quite different if even some of their 65+ year old volunteers nobly step back to save the social lives of the "young" (who are often the people they're helping). Citizens Advice Bureau being one that I work in with closely, but there are plenty more.
A lot of that won't show up explicitly in the GDP stats, but just as not all retirees are in rest homes, not all are non-productive either.
I don't have many better solutions, but like @barbarian and others I'm wary of the idea that there's some sort of magic wand to wall off the vulnerable. Societies (and families) have never been that compartmentalised.
Yeah I think my sisters family would be pretty stuck without my 70+ olds pitching in. Ma just had her last shift at CAB on Monday too, pa is still driving a taxi. Pretty sure they're rather useful to society...