Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders
absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
The plan is reach a target and open the Borders. This has been said countless times. For a variety of reasons 1) people aren't listening and 2) a big part of #1 the govt are light on detail.
It has never been policy to lockdown forever. The Minister of Health has said lockdowns should be a thing of the past once we hit our target. The govt is trialing loosening MIQ requirements.
I realise Auckland has been in lockdown for 6 weeks but despite what John Key says we are not fucking North Korea. Stress levels aren't being helped by all the social media and opposition mischief making.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
well, there is, hit a realistic vaccination target, and open the borders
absolutely cannot believe the people of NZ are willing to put up with ANOTHER year or two of this.
My best mate is in Auckland and he lost his shit at me on Sunday because i made a joke. Being trapped in his house for fucking ages has finally done his head in.
The plan is reach a target and open the Borders. This has been said countless times. For a variety of reasons 1) people aren't listening and 2) a big part of #1 the govt are light on detail.
It has never been policy to lockdown forever. The Minister of Health has said lockdowns should be a thing of the past once we hit our target. The govt is trialing loosening MIQ requirements.
I realise Auckland has been in lockdown for 6 weeks but despite what John Key says we are not fucking North Korea. Stress levels aren't being helped by all the social media and opposition mischief making.
Intention is one, that is what they have. A plan has defined steps, objectives, a proposed timetable and an endpoint. Jacinda, Chris and their lot are on the telly everyday. It's not like they couldn't provide a more specific message and a road map if they truly had one.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The plan is reach a target and open the Borders. This has been said countless times. For a variety of reasons 1) people aren't listening and 2) a big part of #1 the govt are light on detail.
i do not listen to what people say, i care about what they do
what is the threshold? When will this happen? Why is it not being spoken about? Why is there not more pressure to find out these details?
It's not social media dogmeat, i just read the words of the fucking Covid Minister, and his response to opening the borders at an incredible 85% was that the opposition want to give people Covid for Christmas. What part of opposition meddling and social media fuckery is that?
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@smudge said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan you utter mother fucker Hipkins
shit like this is irresponsible as all fuck!!
"The biggest promise they are making at the moment is they are willing for Kiwis to get Covid for Christmas"
Well, Chris, are you waiting for the Easter Bunny to bring it? Or perhaps wheel it out for ANZAC day? Or is it only bad if it comes on a public Holiday?
As for those Qld/NZ parallels here is Qld's biggest cuck Steven Miles ""I don't think Queenslanders want to just give in this close to the end of the pandemic," Mr Miles said.
"I don't think Queenslanders will want to let COVID in for Christmas if we don't have it and New South Wales still does."
Be honest you fucking fluffybunnies
That is perfectly in keeping with the messaging they've started to roll out over the last few weeks which taps into the unbridled fears of the most insular of Kiwis. That's why they planted the seed of thousands of deaths in the minds at the 1pm conference last Wednesday. In absence of a well-executed plan, they're preying on mental frailties instead. Lovely stuff.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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@smudge yep, comparing how well we have done with other countries, and pointing out how we dont want to be like them and 'let' all these people die.
The Govt and media have done a great job of instilling this fear into people.
Spend a bit more time educating people better about the vaccine, about how many doses there have been worldwide, how many of those dying are unvaccinated, how many of those in hospital are unvaccinated.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan I have seen things about incentivising people to get vaccinated, how about employers do this by saying it is your choice to not get vaccinated; however, if you get sick from an illness that could have been vaccinated against (flu, covid, polio, small pox...) you dont get paid sick leave (obviously if you are vaccinated and still get sick from it, sick pay still kicks in)
Expect employment contracts would require some work....
That would require changing the Holidays Act since sick leave is a minimum entitlement so can't be contracted out of (can agree more, but not less).
I think the best carrot/stick approach government has available is compulsory vaccination passports for higher risk activities e.g. flying, ferry, events. Businesses organising vaccinations at workplaces with DHBs and unions is also a good local plan - while most barriers are removed now for most people, that will help remove another one (time and organising ability).
Significant ICU increases is a 5 year project minimum as that's how long it takes to train into those roles after graduating as a nurse. ICU means 1 nurse per patient 24/7, so 5-6 per ICU bed in order to maintain capacity for a full ICU while providing for annual and sick leave and hours of work that are comparable to Australia. Doubling (or more) our current capacity would require a lot extra nurses, not to mention the other staff (doctors, physio, pharmacists etc) that go with it.
Obviously we can try to poach them, but Australia pays 30% more on average, so it's going to be an expensive exercise, assuming the Australians don't just up their wages in response.
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@mariner4life the opposition are trying to turn Covid into a political football. They are in the envious position of being able to promise anything with zero danger of being held to account.
Yeah Hipkins was playing politics as well but I wouldn't trust the National Party to manage a two year old's birthday party let alone a pandemic response.
If there is a groundswell of public opinion to open the border St Cindy will do it (with a very concerned smile and much wringing of hands) in an instant. But there isn't.
Rightly or wrongly there are as many NZ based Kiwi's who would close the borders completely as their are concerned for people wanting to return from overseas.
It's all fucking soundbites at present. Cindy wants to secure our summer, Collins just wants to save her job, ACT can't believe their luck and are more interested in gazumping National than a meaningful dialogue. ACT and National haven't got any policies - they've thrown out some bright and shiny promises in the hope that they will resonate with the electorate.
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Obviously we can try to poach them, but Australia pays 30% more on average, so it's going to be an expensive exercise, assuming the Australians don't just up their wages in response.
well, if we get back to L1, every week we save >$1b vs L4...sure that would help pay medical staff more and buy more equipment
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Obviously we can try to poach them, but Australia pays 30% more on average, so it's going to be an expensive exercise, assuming the Australians don't just up their wages in response.
well, if we get back to L1, every week we save >$1b...sure that would help pay medical staff more and buy more equipment
The money will not make it that far
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@canefan well this last lockdown must be upto $6b and counting....so investing that into healthcare would surely be better - ie right now, print more of this magical money and invest it into Healthcare to help prepare for the inevitable influx of cases, but in order to prevent going into the costly L4/L3, because as we know, it is only the case numbers and death from covid that count...not the businesses going under, the mental health, non-covid related medical stuff etc
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@mariner4life the opposition are trying to turn Covid into a political football. They are in the envious position of being able to promise anything with zero danger of being held to account.
Yeah Hipkins was playing politics as well but I wouldn't trust the National Party to manage a two year old's birthday party let alone a pandemic response.
If there is a groundswell of public opinion to open the border St Cindy will do it (with a very concerned smile and much wringing of hands) in an instant. But there isn't.
Rightly or wrongly there are as many NZ based Kiwi's who would close the borders completely as their are concerned for people wanting to return from overseas.
It's all fucking soundbites at present. Cindy wants to secure our summer, Collins just wants to save her job, ACT can't believe their luck and are more interested in gazumping National than a meaningful dialogue. ACT and National haven't got any policies - they've thrown out some bright and shiny promises in the hope that they will resonate with the electorate.
well i for one am just ecstatic that pollies are having a fat old time. They've earned it with all the income they've given up.
your post in no way contradicts anything i have said, at all.
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@mariner4life my posts were in response to you not believing Kiwi's would put up with another 1-2 years of isolation which in turn came from this from @nzzp
I reckon the GOvt will try and spread that over a year or more with restrictions to keep load on the healthcare system down ... so that means at least another year or two of MIQ.
which is his opinion, but one that has no foundation in fact or any utterance from the govt. People are losing their shit because of this type of negativity and there is not a scrap of evidence to support it.
That's what I've been saying. I have repeateedly said for months I think the govt could have doione better and been more proactive but I don't believe for an instant we are living through the new normal.
The border will be open- not completely, but in some form by the end of Q2 next year at the latest My opinion. No more, or less valid than @nzzp , yours or anyone elses that is unsupported by fact.
I hope it's a lot sooner, but that's down to us. I reckon if we get to 80% things will change pretty quickly
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The figures in the few days will be interesting. Will it stay stable? Decline? Rise progressively?
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
there is not a scrap of evidence to support it
completely agree
but if you add up lots of little statements, and the "official" response to the National plan, then it's an easy assumption to jump to
And one that would be easily set straight with just one fucking plan laid out clearly by the government. But ALL the suppression governments cannot do that because they have backed themselves into a corner with their rhetoric and messaging. When you have made enormous capital on beating Covid, you absolutely cannot be seen to threaten that, no matter the cost.
I find that filling me with dismay
Look, i am fully aware than i am far too emotionally invested in this for my own good, and believe me i have tried to remove myself, but it's impossible, It's everywhere, My State Government and the NZ Government are acting exactly the same. Neither will be nailed down on anything. Any question on a roadmap is attacked as just wanting people to die (is that really what you want Mariner? people to die? you want that? Like in NSW? You want Covid for christmas?). They wheel themselves out in front of us every single day and talk about how well they are doing. And yet, for all this chat, i still don't know anything about when things might change. I'm not locked in my house thank fuck, but i can't go anywhere either.
How about someone shows a bit of balls and a bit of leadership and fucking lays it out for us?
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@mariner4life Cindy doesn't have any balls.
To be fair not many politicians do.
I agree we should be getting more detail. TBH I don't think they know.
Watching what happens overseas as we continue to push for more vaccinations isn't necessarily a bad strategy but I agree about some sort of roadmap is needed. As I have posted here many times.
Thank God we have the world's most transparent government....
and no Federal system.