Canes vs Kings

Canes4life

It was mentioned today that Matt Proctor has returned from injury, a positive in relation to NMS's lengthy setback. I would also give Willis Halaholo a crack in the midfield based on his influential late cameo against the Force.
 
My starting team vs Kings:
 
1. Reggie Goodes
2. Dane Coles
3. Chris Eves (Deserves another chance based of his strong performance against the Force)
4. Blade Thomson
5. Mark Abbott
6. Vaea Fifita
7. Ardie Savea
8. Victor Vito
9. Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi (Perfect opportunity to release the rising star from the Naki).
10. Otere Black (Canes fans may disagree on this selection, however it is important to give Otere game time against a team like the Kings because if Beaudy goes down he has to be ready to slot in. His strong place kicking game is also better than Barrett's so that help when we pile on the points.) 
11. Julian Savea
12. Ngani Laumape (Depending on how sore his Pecs are I would continue with Laumape before the bye. He needs as much time in the jersey as possible).
13. Willis Halaholo (Deserves a shot. Was our best performing back in pre season so it will be great to see him cut capers against a weak Kings side).
14. Cory Jane
15. James Marshall
 
Reserves:
16. Motu Matu'u (Most likely to return from injury)
17. Ben May
18. Jeff Toomaga Allen
19. Michael Fatialofa
20. Callum Gibbins
21. TJ Perenara (Insurance policy on the bench)
22. Beauden Barrett (" " " ")
23. Matt Proctor

cgrant

Is Chris Eves a THP ? I see him more likely on the loosehead side of the scrum.
I would keep on giving Riccitelli some game time off the bench as he is a bright prospect and didn't do anything wrong so far.

Canes4life

I thought he could play both sides but I may be wrong..
 
yeah the selection at reserve hooker is a tough one. There are a few positions up for grabs but my selection is based on keeping the young guys fresh.
 
With the bye just around the corner I suppose it doesn't matter too much though.

Higgins

Pretty sure Riccitelli is on an injury replacement contract thus it stands to reason that he will be there only as long as there is an injury keeping one of the Canes three hookers out. With Dane Coles back and Motu Matu'u getting close to returning I suppose his shelf live at the Canes looks like it will be only until Leni Apisai overcomes his concussion stand down.

Stargazer

Canes line-up. Interesting, Geoff Cridge is named on the bench!
 
<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeL2M6rWAAAozbq.jpg" alt="CeL2M6rWAAAozbq.jpg">

KiwiMurph

That is a tidy starting lineup, especially against the Kings. Fatialofa looked good off the bench last week. Julian Savea hasn't been too impactful so not losing much by not having him there. Midfield combo will be of interest. Otere Black not getting a chance.

Canes4life

Yeah Im a bit puzzled to see Otere missing from the 23, I would have rested Aso for a week and given Otere a shot.
 
Maybe Woodwards selection will see him take over the goal kicking this week. Good to finally see Cridge is available aswell.

Hooroo

What do you lads think of Ben May? I find he does a lot of walking in open play?

Crucial

Julian Savea is officially 'rested'. I hope for Canes fans that he truly isn't resting but is instead working to get rid of those extra chins.
 
The man is fast becoming Weepu all over again.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566672" data-time="1458689353">
<div>
Julian Savea is officially 'rested'. I hope for Canes fans that he truly isn't resting but is instead working to get rid of those extra chins.
 
The man is fast becoming Weepu all over again.
</div>
</blockquote>
is it 2015 again?

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="566674" data-time="1458689682">
<div>
is it 2015 again?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Could be. Waiting to get into the AB squad before going hard.
 
As long as he does then I don't have a problem. Hurricanes fans however might want a bit more from him at this stage.

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566675" data-time="1458690085">
<div>
Could be. Waiting to get into the AB squad before going hard.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Shit attitude if true. Ah the luxuries of having signed a big, safe contract.

Stargazer

Southern Kings: 15 Jurgen Visser, 14 Luzuko Vulindlu, 13 Stefan Watermeyer, 12 Shane Gates (vc), 11 Malcolm Jaer, 10 Louis Fouche, 9 Ntando Kebe, 8 Jacques Engelbrecht, 7 Stefan Willemse, 6 Cyril-John Velleman, 5 John-Charles Astle, 4 Steven Sykes, (c) 3 Jacobie Adriaanse, 2 Edgar Marutlulle, 1 Sithembiso Sithole. 

Replacements: 16 Martin Bezuidenhoudt, 17 Justin Ackerman, 18 Tom Botha, 19 Schalk Oelofse, 20 Chris Cloete, 21 Kevin Luiters, 22 Elgar Watts, 23 JP Du Plessis.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566675" data-time="1458690085">
<div>
Could be. Waiting to get into the AB squad before going hard.
 
As long as he does then I don't have a problem. Hurricanes fans however might want a bit more from him at this stage.
</div>
</blockquote>
In about 3 runs ....
 
Cridge in the team this week, maybe Renton will make an appearance at some stage too. 
 
Is this the most Canes the Magpies have ever had at one time?

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Frank" data-cid="566676" data-time="1458690521">
<div>
Shit attitude if true. Ah the luxuries of having signed a big, safe contract.
</div>
</blockquote>
I gotta agree
 
Look at the fat hua!
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/78189035/julian-savea-left-out-as-hurricanes-make-three-changes-for-kings'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/78189035/julian-savea-left-out-as-hurricanes-make-three-changes-for-kings</a>

Crucial

Hooroo

Question or statement or what or?

Crucial

Which would you rather have. The fat version or the leaner meaner one

Hooroo

Well duh. Are you serial?

kiwiinmelb

Im starting to be a concerned about Julian to be honest , 
 
Not writing him off , because i know how good his best is , 
 
I know he had a great quarter final last year , but apart from that he was a little underwhelming overall last year by his standards , 
 
And backs that up by starting this season looking a little fat and slow again

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="566685" data-time="1458696999">Southern Kings: 15 Jurgen Visser, 14 Luzuko Vulindlu, 13 Stefan Watermeyer, 12 Shane Gates (vc), 11 Malcolm Jaer, 10 Louis Fouche, 9 Ntando Kebe, 8 Jacques Engelbrecht, 7 Stefan Willemse, 6 Cyril-John Velleman, 5 John-Charles Astle, 4 Steven Sykes, (c) 3 Jacobie Adriaanse, 2 Edgar Marutlulle, 1 Sithembiso Sithole. Replacements: 16 Martin Bezuidenhoudt, 17 Justin Ackerman, 18 Tom Botha, 19 Schalk Oelofse, 20 Chris Cloete, 21 Kevin Luiters, 22 Elgar Watts, 23 JP Du Plessis.</blockquote>
 
Any Bokke or potential Bokke in that lot?

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="566727" data-time="1458724833">
Im starting to be a concerned about Julian to be honest , 
Not writing him off , because i know how good his best is , 
I know he had a great quarter final last year , but apart from that he was a little underwhelming overall last year by his standards , 
And backs that up by starting this season looking a little fat and slow again</blockquote>
 
Not commenting on his shape this year but he did suffer from reputation lag last year. He was fucking sharp through the whole RWC. just because he wasn't Lomu-ing the whole way he was derided. Even prior to that he was pretty damn good. But he dropped a pass in the Super Final so he was useless. 
This year though .. he looks overweight and out of condition....

cgrant

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Canes4life" data-cid="566665" data-time="1458687027">
<div>
Yeah Im a bit puzzled to see Otere missing from the 23, I would have rested Aso for a week and given Otere a shot.
 
Maybe Woodwards selection will see him take over the goal kicking this week. Good to finally see Cridge is available aswell. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 Even with Woodward in the starting XV, I would keep on BB as first choice goalkicker because he needs to get more confidence (and consistency) in this area.

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="566742" data-time="1458729702">
<div>
Not commenting on his shape this year but he did suffer from reputation lag last year. He was fucking sharp through the whole RWC. just because he wasn't Lomu-ing the whole way he was derided. Even prior to that he was pretty damn good. But he dropped a pass in the Super Final so he was useless. 
This year though .. he looks overweight and out of condition....
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 Yes he did some bullocking runs in close, but he definitely seemed slower at the WC.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="566742" data-time="1458729702">
<div>
Not commenting on his shape this year but he did suffer from reputation lag last year. He was fucking sharp through the whole RWC. just because he wasn't Lomu-ing the whole way he was derided. Even prior to that he was pretty damn good. But he dropped a pass in the Super Final so he was useless. 
This year though .. he looks overweight and out of condition....
</div>
</blockquote>
I think we watched a different world cup. I remember a few good runs, but fucking sharp, no way.

kiwiinmelb

He was effective ,but I guess im judging him on what we have seen from him seasons previous ...... he was down by his usual standards , 
 
And this time last year , there were comments about his weight and lack of spark as well.

Frye

Sorry Crucial, there must be better ways to "peak" than by just getting fat in the off season.

KiwiMurph

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="566727" data-time="1458724833">
<div>
Im starting to be a concerned about Julian to be honest , 
 
Not writing him off , because i know how good his best is , 
 
I know he had a great quarter final last year , but apart from that he was a little underwhelming overall last year by his standards , 
 
And backs that up by starting this season looking a little fat and slow again 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
He doesn't look anywhere as explosive as he did in 2012-2014. I'm hoping this is in relation to the fitness aspect and not a Rokocoko type situation where he has peaked and while still useful, never the same player again.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="566877" data-time="1458784799">
<div>
Sorry Crucial, there must be better ways to "peak" than by just getting fat in the off season.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Eh? I'm the one that started giving him shit for being fat.
 
The photos were to show the contrast.

Crucial

The media opinion pieces are now weighing in. This topic has jumped the shark.
 
From the Herald
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Four months off rugby was not enough for Julian Savea.
The All Black left wing has struggled through the start of Super rugby and been left out of the Hurricanes side to play the Kings this weekend.
His absence was a chance, coach Chris Boyd said, to give others a go.
Sure is but even if Jason Woodward or Matt Proctor from the bench, produce man of the match performances you'd be confident Savea would return to the side after the Canes bye the following week.
It's more a warning for Savea to get himself and his game in order before the Canes host the Jaguares on April 9.
Everything about this situation smells of woolly thinking.
 
 
Boyd noted that Savea had let his fitness work fall away after a huge workload in 2015 through Super rugby and the World Cup and had not been at his best in the opening month of this year's Super rugby series.
"We have a high expectation of Julian every time he takes the field. It's the same as all the prominent players, the expectation's high," Boyd said.
So why did Boyd select Savea to start the tournament when he "probably wasn't as disciplined as he could've been around keeping up some of his work."
Fellow World Cuppers Dane Coles, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Victor Vito, TJ Perenara and Beauden Barrett all turned up fit and ready to play.
If Savea was in rough shape as the fitness trainers would be able to gauge, Boyd should have given the wing the message then that he was not going to play until he reached acceptable conditioning levels.
Choosing Savea on reputation was not the answer as Boyd has discovered.
Persisting with a public defence of the wing's sluggish attitude is equally flawed.
 
</blockquote>
 
and Stuff
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
OPINION: We're about to find out what being a Hurricane means to Julian Savea.
At first glance, your suspicion would be that it sits a distant second to his status as an All Black. After all, this is the second season running in which it's become apparent that the hulking wing hasn't trained as hard as he could have.
That raises questions about the regard Savea holds Hurricanes coach Chris Boyd in. Put in another way, you doubt he'd dare be unfit for long on Steve Hansen's watch.
 
Now Boyd's acted. With a star as bright as Savea can be - and knowing that nothing will recapture that glow as quickly as playing - the temptation must've been to do nothing.
 
That would've been the easy option. Continue to make flattering comments about Savea - maybe even roll out that old chestnut about class being permanent - and then hope the form returns.
 
In omitting Savea from the 23 to meet the Southern Kings on Friday (don't call it a dropping whatever you do), Boyd has certainly brought the situation into focus. He needed to as well.
If players think they can turn up to play for the Hurricanes in ordinary shape and play poorly, some inevitably will. Boyd's making it plain that, no matter how good you can be on your day, you're not too special to sit in the stands.
Savea's response will be fascinating. The Hurricanes have basically put him on a two-week training programme, designed return his body to its best.
Julian Savea at the 2015 World Cup. 
Julian Savea at the 2015 World Cup.
The wing's first public act was to do a few "extras" at the team's Wednesday training session. Only he'll know if it was a coincidence that he chose to run his sprints in direct view of the news cameras that were there.
 
Boyd was exceptionally kind to Savea, in what he said during that session. Instead of throwing him under the bus, the coach talked about the pressures All Blacks face, particularly in the final year of a World Cup-cycle, and even went as far as suggesting that having to combine Super and international rugby might be a bit unfair.
Never mind the other players in the Hurricanes squad who were World Cup-winning All Blacks last year and rocked up for pre-season training in excellent shape.
 
That's not the last time a point of that nature will be raised. The international season is long and taxing and who's to say that in 20 or 50 years time that the All Blacks might not be a stand alone franchise, whose players don't have to bother with Super Rugby.
For now, though, Savea is a Hurricane. The next few weeks will tell us whether he cares about being one.
 
</blockquote>

tubbyj

Otere Black is going to be ripe for the picking for the new Crusaders coach next season.

Rancid Schnitzel

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566672" data-time="1458689353">
Julian Savea is officially 'rested'. I hope for Canes fans that he truly isn't resting but is instead working to get rid of those extra chins. 
The man is fast becoming Weepu all over again.</blockquote>
 
Yeah they probably have a tab with the same bakery. Though at least Savea is still capable of running. One of Weepus major strengths was his ability to run the ball. But towards the end he was waddling to every ruck and would have had a heart attack if he tried to pick and go. Such a shame.

taniwharugby

If the black jersey wasnt motivation enough, jeez you'd think having his brother in the same team there'd be extra motivation to be fitter, faster stronger etc....maybe he needs to go on 7s duty for a month?

Dice

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="tubbyj" data-cid="566885" data-time="1458787689">
<div>
Otere Black is going to be ripe for the picking for the new Crusaders coach next season.
</div>
</blockquote>
The way Mo'unga is going, I think he might be warming the bench if he went to the Crusaders. If he really wants game time, I suggest the Blues. :)

pukunui

It's a tough one with Savea. While he wasn't at his peak in 2015 I don't think he was as bad as some people made out (wanting him dropped before the RWC etc.)
The way the AB's used him last year was very different from previous years. He was doing a lot of in close running to make the gain line, and doing a good job of it. Didn't help the percepition that he wasn't playing well that NMS was tearing it up on the right wing.
 
Not surprised that he came back a bit over weight this year being post RWC and getting married. Just hope he can get into shape and back to his best quickly.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="566883" data-time="1458786174">
<div>
Eh? I'm the one that started giving him shit for being fat.
 
The photos were to show the contrast.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Ok sorry, I thought you were saying something like "would you prefer for him to be in form for the Canes or All Blacks".

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="KiwiMurph" data-cid="566878" data-time="1458785152">
<div>
He doesn't look anywhere as explosive as he did in 2012-2014. I'm hoping this is in relation to the fitness aspect and not a Rokocoko type situation where he has peaked and while still useful, never the same player again.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
My gut feeling is starting to tell me that maybe his best is behind him when it comes to being the fast blockbusting finishing winger , more than happy to be proven wrong , because I dont want to it to be true .

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="566928" data-time="1458802529">
My gut feeling is starting to tell me that maybe his best is behind him when it comes to being the fast blockbusting finishing winger , more than happy to be proven wrong , because I dont want to it to be true .</blockquote>We always get wingers that score tries at an incredible rate, to the point that if they played as many tests as Habana they'd be 50 odd tries clear of the next best. But then they turn 26, their form takes a slump and the next talented up and comer takes over. I was really hoping Savea would end up with 100 tests and as many tries, but that is difficult to maintain I guess. What's frustrating is he isn't helping himself with his fitness.

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="566928" data-time="1458802529">
<div>
My gut feeling is starting to tell me that maybe his best is behind him when it comes to being the fast blockbusting finishing winger , more than happy to be proven wrong , because I dont want to it to be true . 
</div>
</blockquote>
While I know what you are saying, That game against France was only two tests ago. So it isn't that far in the past that he was doing what he has always been good at. Too early to write him off IMO.

hydro11

Who cares about Savea? We produce a lot of talented wingers. As people have said, if he is over weight just show him the door. There will always be a young talnted guy like Naholo coming through. Only Hurricanes fans should really be concerned. Savea at his best is still an asset for the AB's but we can find any Savea.
 
Most worrying is how poor Savea has been under the high ball this season.

The Silver Fern

Canes vs Kings