RWC QF: France v South Africa
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@Dodge said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Are you arguing that because he tried to tap it back, if it then went forward, it shouldn't be a penalty / yellow?
I'm not @bones but if you had asked me YES.
The offence is INTENTIONAL knock forward.
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@pakman said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
The refs have tied themselves in knots. For me it was plain that EE was trying to knock the ball backwards.
Irrespective of what the ref's 'guidance' says, the common sense approach is that is not a deliberate knock on.
THIS!
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@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@stodders said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@TeWaio Slippery slope there. There was nothing wrong with the French pass that Etzebeth slapped down. Etzebeth took the risk, not the French passer. He got away with it. I imagine he wouldn't if Wayne Barnes was reffing
I thought he had his hand in front of ball and was trying to reef/knock it backwards, and that was why I thought BOK got it right. I definitely didn't see it as a knock down. But then again I haven't ben back to study it again, as I not sure I would get anything out of it.
Again, knock DOWN is not illegal.
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@stodders said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@booboo if I "try" to knock the ball backwards and in the process get it slightly wrong, the ball can still go forward.
His action was to try and knock the ball down/back - the pro-French argument (not that it matters now) is whether he succeeded in doing so.
I can try and catch the ball for an intercept with both hands, but still knock it on.
If I knock the ball forward and deny a clear scoring opportunity at the try line, I shouldn't be surprised if I get sanctioned. In that scenario it is a penalty and a yellow card at least, if not a penalty try too as the try would likely have been scored if the transgression had not happened.
Are refs adjudicating on what a player is attempting to do or on what actually happens?
But in trying to knock it backwards you are NOT intentionally knocking it forward.
NOT a penalisable offence.
Scrum.
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@booboo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Bones said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
If it's above the knee,
Pretty sure that's not a knock on.
Knock on off the arm, shoulder down.
Takes me back to the old Los "chip" off the thigh. I was sure they changed the interpretation after that.
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@Bones said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@booboo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Bones said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
If it's above the knee,
Pretty sure that's not a knock on.
Knock on off the arm, shoulder down.
Takes me back to the old Los "chip" off the thigh. I was sure they changed the interpretation after that.
Pretty sure I saw Andy Marinos do something similar a year or three before ...
The difference being the ball bouncing off you rather than playing from possession.
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@booboo OK, so any player can intentionally knock on on their try line without penalty sanction purely by ensuring they hook their mitt around it and looking like they are knocking it backwards.
Should be interesting
I think it was where the penalty occured and the situation that had unfolded that has led to this debate. Not sure anyone would have overly grumbled if it was in the French half. Maybe that is part of the problem though.
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@stodders said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@booboo OK, so any player can intentionally knock on on their try line without penalty sanction purely by ensuring they hook their mitt around it and looking like they are knocking it backwards.
Should be interesting
I think it was where the penalty occured and the situation that had unfolded that has led to this debate. Not sure anyone would have overly grumbled if it was in the French half. Maybe that is part of the problem though.
Massive leap in logic there.
An intentional knock on is illegal.
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@booboo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
The difference being the ball bouncing off you rather than playing from possession
Gets murky eh, is chest or shoulder a knock on? Dollars to donuts anytime someone tries to catch a kick/pass and it goes forward off shoulder/chest/thigh it gets called knock on.
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great effort Booboo. Loving this entirely theoretical rugby law chat.
If you go for a ball without trying to catch it to block a pass and it goes forwards, then I would suggest that could be considered an intentional knock on, as you intended not to catch it and you knocked it on...
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@booboo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Frank said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
I came here for a bit of game analysis and all I can find are nerds talking about law interpretations.
And you repeat yourself.
Well there could be a guest spot here by SBW or Marshall talking about law interpretations...
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@Bones said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@booboo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
The difference being the ball bouncing off you rather than playing from possession
Gets murky eh, is chest or shoulder a knock on? Dollars to donuts anytime someone tries to catch a kick/pass and it goes forward off shoulder/chest/thigh it gets called knock on.
Not if you're Joe Marler?
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@Dodge said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
great effort Booboo. Loving this entirely theoretical rugby law chat.
If you go for a ball without trying to catch it to block a pass and it goes forwards, then I would suggest that could be considered an intentional knock on, as you intended not to catch it and you knocked it on...
@Booboo - Nigel has just confirmed in Whistle Watch what I've said above, go one handed, no attempt to catch, if it goes forward, irrespective of what direction your hand is moving etc, then it would have been penalty for an intentional knock on
