All Blacks 2025
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
The Blues attack has been awful this year. The Blues stop the Blues from scoring than any other team so I don't think you can use them as an indicator as a good defender.
Ardies game is more balanced at 7 than guys like Cane, Jacobson, Blackadder and Papali'i who focus more of their efforts on hitting rucks and defending. Ardies average tackle per game would be low compared to most NZ 7s but he wins more turnovers and has better attacking play.
I think a trio of Savea, Sititi and Lakai lacks balance personally. Sure Lakai played well against France but ultimately his efforts and the loose forward efforts weren't good enough.
These 3 players natural inclination is to run the ball over everything else. The Canes have used this kind of combo for years and it hasn't been winning them titles.We tried to run France off their feet with this trio and we lost. We had 60% possession and twice the post contact metres and we lost.
That said I do think we will see this combo again.
Also Lakai isn't a better 8 than Sititi.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
You're probably throwing stones in glass houses there accusing other people of harping on about players mate.
You do still need players to get to a lot of rucks, not just ball runners, if you intend to run teams off their feet. Otherwise you're really just picking a league team / highlights reel players which isn't going to work at all.Anyway, it was just a throwaway 'be careful what you wish for' post, so whatever. I don't want to see the ABs adopt that approach, because I don't think it will work.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
You're probably throwing stones in glass houses there accusing other people of harping on about players mate.
You do still need players to get to a lot of rucks, not just ball runners, if you intend to run teams off their feet. Otherwise you're really just picking a league team / highlights reel players which isn't going to work at all.Anyway, it was just a throwaway 'be careful what you wish for' post, so whatever. I don't want to see the ABs adopt that approach, because I don't think it will work.
What makes you think those players can't do the job of a Blackadder? Sititi is the sort of player than can physically match up as a 6 and has the ability to go into dark places if needed as well.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
All speculation its not what I hear, very destructive talk.
The Captain will be Scott Barrett 100%.It most probably will be because at the end of the day Razor gets to make the decision. Doesn’t mean the players don’t gravitate and look to someone else though… and that’s a fact. Nothing destructive at all.
There’s two lines of thought on this. There’s rumours both ways on Savea, and the other thing is, if S Barrett didn’t have the respect of the players, he wouldn’t be captain. Who the captain is, is far from a big deal, and using it as a stick to beat Razor with is silly… it’s not like he’s made someone like Blackadder captain.
Who’s saying S.Barrett isn’t respected and who’s using it to beat Razor with a stick?
Not even remotely close to what I posted. No need to twist words mate. Simply posting what I’ve been told.
I’d also argue that who the captain is, is an incredibly big deal. This isn’t club footy.
Sorry, I wasn't meaning you specifically.
As for who the captain is being an incredibly big deal, what I really mean is internally they are just labels. As you have intimated, 'the captain' can be different to the 'players captain' - there are still other leaders who talk within etc.
I also suspect different players/people internally probably view the situation differently. Naturally, there will be those closer to Ardie, and there will be those closer to Scott Barrett.
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I don't think Jacobson is a bench loosie - he either starts or is left out of the 23. He's been given very few chances in a starting role and I'm fairly confident that he would do fine if given some proper minutes.
Blackadder could start at 7 but he doesn't play big enough to form a combo with Sititi and Savea, and those two are automatic selections right now, which means Blackadder shouldn't be starting at all.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
The Blues attack has been awful this year. The Blues stop the Blues from scoring than any other team so I don't think you can use them as an indicator as a good defender.
Ardies game is more balanced at 7 than guys like Cane, Jacobson, Blackadder and Papali'i who focus more of their efforts on hitting rucks and defending. Ardies average tackle per game would be low compared to most NZ 7s but he wins more turnovers and has better attacking play.
I think a trio of Savea, Sititi and Lakai lacks balance personally. Sure Lakai played well against France but ultimately his efforts and the loose forward efforts weren't good enough.
These 3 players natural inclination is to run the ball over everything else. The Canes have used this kind of combo for years and it hasn't been winning them titles.We tried to run France off their feet with this trio and we lost. We had 60% possession and twice the post contact metres and we lost.
That said I do think we will see this combo again.
Also Lakai isn't a better 8 than Sititi.
Lakai's time will come. He is still only 22, and is the heir to Ardie's thrown at SEVEN. We might need to cycle through some options over the next three years, to eventually find the answer, but you are really looking for a player to compliment Sititi and Savea (Could well be Lakai by 2027)... picking the three best loose forwards doesn't necessarily work.
The blindside as has pointed out by many needs to be a monster in and around the ruck to allow the other two to roam, and preferably one who is a lineout option. Parker to me is the leading candidate as of now, but Howden and Cam Christie have both shown glimpses. Pending fitness, Flanders and Haig have previously shown they might have what it takes. The other option is converting a lock... so Ah Kuoi or Vaa'i, but that traditionally hasn't be a prudent strategy.
In a 35-man squad, we will pick seven loose forwards. I'd like to see them be brave. It's 3x Opensides, 2x 8s and 2x 6s...
Savea, Lakai, Papalii
Sititi, Lio-Willie
Parker, FinauBlackadder should be nowhere near it, and despite his good Super Rugby form, Jacobson has been tried and failed too, and I don't really see why that would have changed. Papalii as the incumbent edges out Kirif, because I think in the test environment, DP's carrying is way superior... he does also potentially have the size to do the role of the blindside.
Lio-Willie is in as the form number eight, I don't want to use Ardie or Lakai there. CLW has been very good too, and would be deserving.
Parker leads the blindside race, Finau is in purely because the other options are too green, but feels like this is now or never for him.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
You're probably throwing stones in glass houses there accusing other people of harping on about players mate.
You do still need players to get to a lot of rucks, not just ball runners, if you intend to run teams off their feet. Otherwise you're really just picking a league team / highlights reel players which isn't going to work at all.Anyway, it was just a throwaway 'be careful what you wish for' post, so whatever. I don't want to see the ABs adopt that approach, because I don't think it will work.
What makes you think those players can't do the job of a Blackadder? Sititi is the sort of player than can physically match up as a 6 and has the ability to go into dark places if needed as well.
If you're talking about hitting rucks...
In Ardie's case, more than a decade of watching him play. For all his brilliance, he's never been a ruck-hitter.
Lakai, maybe he can - but he hasn't really been so far. Not too bad, but e.g. Kirifi would hit more.
Sititi hits quite a few.If you're talking about defence...
Ardie same deal. Good defender, very accurate. Not a volume defender though, particularly when he's hanging off looking for turnovers.
Lakai, not bad - but nowhere near Blackadder or Dalton. Again Kirifi would make more.
Sititi - he certainly can be should circumstances dictate - see Super final last year.Blackadder can't run like those guys (and I'm not even advocating for his selection). But it is a bit ridiculous to insist he has no good things about him and anyone else could do what he does.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
I don't think Jacobson is a bench loosie - he either starts or is left out of the 23. He's been given very few chances in a starting role and I'm fairly confident that he would do fine if given some proper minutes.
Blackadder could start at 7 but he doesn't play big enough to form a combo with Sititi and Savea, and those two are automatic selections right now, which means Blackadder shouldn't be starting at all.
Yeah and it wouldn't surprise me if Jacobsen was the starting 6 either. Him or Blackadder. I'm no huge fan of either, but Razor/Ryan do like a worker in their loose trio and I think they'll be eyeing one of those 2 to be that guy who carries close to the ruck, cleans out rucks and racks up the tackles, similar to North Islandes fern favourite Shannon Frizzell and how he was used.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai."Run them off their feet" means "we are uncharacteristically gassed early in the second half"
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:
Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
LoveOn the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.
IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.
Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.
How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.
If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?
My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.
There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.
I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.
You're probably throwing stones in glass houses there accusing other people of harping on about players mate.
You do still need players to get to a lot of rucks, not just ball runners, if you intend to run teams off their feet. Otherwise you're really just picking a league team / highlights reel players which isn't going to work at all.Anyway, it was just a throwaway 'be careful what you wish for' post, so whatever. I don't want to see the ABs adopt that approach, because I don't think it will work.
What makes you think those players can't do the job of a Blackadder? Sititi is the sort of player than can physically match up as a 6 and has the ability to go into dark places if needed as well.
If you're talking about hitting rucks...
In Ardie's case, more than a decade of watching him play. For all his brilliance, he's never been a ruck-hitter.
Lakai, maybe he can - but he hasn't really been so far. Not too bad, but e.g. Kirifi would hit more.
Sititi hits quite a few.If you're talking about defence...
Ardie same deal. Good defender, very accurate. Not a volume defender though, particularly when he's hanging off looking for turnovers.
Lakai, not bad - but nowhere near Blackadder or Dalton. Again Kirifi would make more.
Sititi - he certainly can be should circumstances dictate - see Super final last year.Blackadder can't run like those guys (and I'm not even advocating for his selection). But it is a bit ridiculous to insist he has no good things about him and anyone else could do what he does.
Blackadder just needs to focus on getting on the field, right now he isn't in the picture. Dalton has been a bit underwhelming for me but will likely be there in some capacity. All this discussion around selection is somewhat pointless because none of us know what type of game Razor has in mind.
In terms of running teams of 'their feet' of course we need to still be sensible about what team we put out if it starts becoming a shit fight. But the goal is to get back to where we were prior to 2017 in that if 'we are on', no one will be able to keep up. Personally, I'd like us to adapt a similar approach to what the Chiefs played on Saturday night, attacking the space and using our superior skillset to trouble teams who aren't as skillful. That's always been our point of difference, something we haven't seen for a number of years now.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
Razor/Ryan do like a worker in their loose trio and I think they'll be eyeing one of those 2 to be that guy who carries close to the ruck, cleans out rucks and racks up the tackles
Looks to me like what Parker was doing at 6 on the weekend for the Chiefs
He has the added bonus of being built like a test 6.
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I think Blackadder is way more in the picture than people realise. He's always been perpetually injured and hardly played any Super as a result, but despite that he started every single game at 6 he was fit for last season. I suspect they see him as their "high workrate" 6 to pair with Ardie and Sititi.
In summary, in amongst plenty of brilliance from Ardie and Sititi, I expect our loosies to get smacked around in their core roles all season again.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
I think Blackadder is way more in the picture than people realise. He's always been perpetually injured and hardly played any Super as a result, but despite that he started every single game at 6 he was fit for last season. I suspect they see him as their "high workrate" 6 to pair with Ardie and Sititi.
In summary, in amongst plenty of brilliance from Ardie and Sititi, I expect our loosies to get smacked around in their core roles all season again.
Most often the best combo is 1 worker, 1 bruiser, 1 player.
Our problem is we have 2 players (AS, WS) who are stone cold certainties - so if you select the worker (EB/DP/LJ) you've got no bruiser. If you select the bruiser (SF) you've got no worker.
I think last year we looked slightly better when trying to make up for the lack of bruiser by using Tosi/Tuipolotou etc, than we did trying to make up for the lack of worker.
Not sure what the solution is though. If you picked Holland you'd have a worker at lock, but I think it might be a year early for his body. -
@KiwiMurph Jacobson has played 25 tests and we won 21 of those. Three of those losses were against South Africa. He gets found out a bit at the very highest level, but he's very useful against most Test teams. He covers 6, 7 and 8. He can carry, his passing game is solid and he's a lineout option. Impact beats versatility, but versatility isn't to be totally sniffer at either.
I agree he's behind Lakai now in the pecking order, but for me he's better suited to Test Rugby than Ethan Blackadder or Du'Plessis Kirifi.
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I for once would just like to see the AB's picked on form, though the last time that was done appears to be fading from my memory. And there's that nagging fear that every 50/50 call will go the way of a Cusaders player as that's who Razor has worked with. Time will tell...
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The AB midfield is a bizzare conumdrum.
Almost everyone seems to flood the midfield which results in RI getting the ball and then man pretty much all the time. Neither RI or JB are particulary gifted "put the man into space" passers of the ball so it often just dies in the midfield. RI has no kicking game but his pace does save our blushes on defence considerably.
Given that's the "pattern" on attack you would think we'd go for a big bruiser at centre that can take the ball and the man and have go-forward but we've either not developed or found anyone to do that role.
It's an odd case of apparently the AB coach's giving up hope on using the midfield as an attacking weapon and simply picking a player that does the best defensive role as we can't get the ball through the midfield, or to the wingers via smooth distribution and there's no-one else who can do a better job.
We saw last year the advent of the wrappity, wrap, wrap with DMac recieving backdoor passes x2 to try and get the ball to the wings with a gameplan that seemed to exhaust the forward pack and leave us with nothing in the tank for the last 20 minutes...
In short, it seems the AB midfield is a dead-zone and the centre is picked mainly on their defensive ability.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph Jacobson has played 25 tests and we won 21 of those. Three of those were against South Africa. He gets found out a bit at the very highest level, but he's very useful against most Test teams.
When you say 3 of those you mean 3 of the losses came against South Africa
His 4 losses come against Boks (3) and France (1)
I dispute the opinion that he is a 'great' bench option.
We need to find ways to improve the 23 - one of those is more impact from our bench loosie
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:
Blackadder just needs to focus on getting on the field, right now he isn't in the picture.
As the saying goes, the best ability is availability.
Robertson's use of the bench, and his substitutions, were poor last season. Often he was reluctant to go to the bench early, and got lucky in the game against England (with the BB concussion, allowing Telea to return).
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Sparky's squad
Props: Tamati Williams, Ethan De Groot, Ollie Norris, Tyrell Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Pasilio Tosi
Hookers: Codie Taylor, Sami Taukei'aho, Asafo Aumua
Locks: Scott Barrett (c), Tupou Vaa'i, Patrick Tuipolutu, Fabian Holland, Sam Darry
Back Row: Simon Parker, Ardie Savea, Wallace Sititi, Dalton Papali'i, Peter Lakai, Luke Jacobson
Half Backs: Cortez Ratima, Cam Roigard, Noah Hotham
First Fives: Damien McKenzie, Ruben Love, Beauden Barrett
Midfield: Jordie Barrett, Quinn Tupaea, Billy Proctor, Timoci Tavatavanawai
Back Three : Caleb Clarke, Sevu Reece, Will Jordan, Leroy Carter, Caleb Tangitau
