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Quite by chance the following appeared on today's Dominion Post website. Something along the same lines but with a very different judicial punishment imposed.
Interestingly no mention of the Filipo case on the Dominion's website. Draw your own conclusions on that.
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Isn't the key factor in all this that he was 17, not that he is a member of the Lions squad?
Absolutely not condoning that - but you would want to know the full story before deciding where to set your outrage meter. "Unnamed All Black Winger" from about 10 years ago pretty much got a free pass with a similar sounding incident - but many seemed to rationalise that.
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well the line they were peddling on the shiny new Breakfast with former mother of the nation Hilaaaaaaaaaaaaryyyyyyy Barry was that rugby players get away with too much, and to add credibility they had a former Shortland Street dude and some female comedian offer their opinions too! They had another lady on (was from some kind of sentencing outfit) who did offer a reasonably balanced view.
I have seen plenty of summary's of facts of court cases, and the reasoning behind judges thinking is very bizarre at times, although the flipside is they are privy to all the minute details, rather than the exaggerated/downplayed facts presented in the media.
EDIT: as an aside, what happened to Losi's 2 mates that were involved?
"Morgan told Radio New Zealand that when he and his friends were approached by Filipo and his two friends that night, it was clear they were after a fight."...."I distinctly remember Losi being fired up from the get go ... I remember looking down and seeing Losi's fist already clenched."...."Harking back to the night he was assaulted, Morgan said he could not remember much about the assault, but his friends told him he was grabbed by the collar, and punched by Filipo"....
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That's something that really fucks me off about NZ journalism. You so often get them interviewing either someone that is not an expert in the field at all, or interviewing each other. Very rarely do they get an actual expert to give a balanced opinion or view of an incident. As you say it's a complete fucking waste of time hearing what some idiot from Shortland Street thinks about it. How about a lawyer or someone similar that can actually talk to the case, and talk to other cases they are aware of where the same reasoning has been applied.
We don't have reporters, we have repeaters. And often they fuck that up as well.
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@taniwharugby The Dom Post article says Filipo's brother was charged with four lesser charges and was convicted. It doesn't say what the sentence was, if any.
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Is this feral any relation to Ross Filipo?
When I want an expert opinion I don't know about the rest of you but instead of seeking out the advice of someone recognised in the field I always seek guidance from a Shortland st actor, Lucy Lawless Hayley Holt or Robyn Malcolm . You know it makes sense .
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The people that were claiming our justice system is racist are a bit quiet on this one.
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Some background on Losi Filipo as a rugby player:
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This farks me off because of the way this is dragging 'rugby' through the mud - when in fact it's got fark all to do with it.
Wellington are between a rock and a hard place because it's not up to them to be the judge on this - that's up to, you know, the actual judge so as far as they're concerned he's in the clear - but sheesh there's going to be some repercussions from the fans I'm sure.
This is nothing more than some sh*tbag tough cnut who's out looking for a fight after being out drinking - I'm sure we've all encountered enough dickheads like these in our lives - and something needs to be done about it. This was a great opportunity to send a message but once again the courts have let everyone down.
I'm all for diversion, I'm sure we've all done stupid stuff when we were younger but this is WAY above that threshold. Knocking someone out who was not even fighting, stomping on his unconscious head, then attacking the girls he was with? I saw the victims mother saying her son was a 'very big boy' so I can just see it now - "there's a big guy lets go try have a fight with him". Growing up being tall I had to deal with fcukwits exactly like this all the time going to parties etc.
I want to be able to walk the streets after a few beers and not have to worry about twats like this, and I want my kids to be safe on the streets when they get older also.
I also can't understand how the injuries to the victims weren't taken into account either - this wasn't a stupid drunken punchup - this was an attack that left one of the victims unable to work for 8 months! Oh but you know he spend 150 hours doing some community work.. big farking deal.
Hopefully the people of Wellington will show their feelings towards the Mayor who wrote a letter of support in the upcoming elections as well...
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Quality rant and if it turns out it was just an unprovoked attack from someone looking for a fight you are bang on. We don't actually know that yet though, so that's just an assumption.
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provoked or not, if the fact about him stomping on an unconscious dudes head is true, then something like that deserves a spell behind bars.
While plenty of incidents are jail worthy, jail may not be the best for the person, so can appreciate the judge using discretion in some instances, but to escape without conviction seems so wrong, IF the facts are as presented - I guess this is where our media need to be held to account and ensure they are presenting facts.
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@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
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@taniwharugby said in Appalling double-standard:
provoked or not, if the fact about him stomping on an unconscious dudes head is true, then something like that deserves a spell behind bars.
While plenty of incidents are jail worthy, jail may not be the best for the person, so can appreciate the judge using discretion in some instances, but to escape without conviction seems so wrong, IF the facts are as presented - I guess this is where our media need to be held to account and ensure they are presenting facts.
Absolutely. And I'm playing devils advocate here, but the key word there is IF.
We've heard the account from the victims, which would have been (I assume) the same account they gave in court. But then the judge heard the account from the accused. So got both sides of the story, which is largely hearsay based on drunk people's memories of what happened. He then weighed up all of the facts, mitigating factors, people's past history and potential to reoffend, punishment which includes Losi's name being made public, and came to a decision that (by the looks) benefits society rather then the victims desire for retribution. If the soliciter-general does not agree then the decision can be appealed. Thankfully our justice system is largely free of corruption.
In summary: fuck being a judge.
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Without commenting on the appropriateness or otherwise of the sentence, diversion is normally done by the police and typically involves dropping the charges for a first offender provided certain criteria are met.
Discharge without conviction is at the discretion of the judge, and can be given for any offense(s) without a minimum sentence, which is why DIC/DUI/EBA doesn't normally get it. The common reason for discharging without conviction in these cases is because the conviction would cost the offenders the ability to get contracts to play overseas (whether Super rugby or international because of the travelling, or simply to play pro rugby overseas e.g. in Europe), which is seen as disproportionate to the offending. The case law on the subject effectively views a conviction as a fine for the lost earnings, which could easily be hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars over 10-15 years for a young player relative to their earnings, particularly if they come from a lower socio-economic background.
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@Bovidae said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
That might be a minefield given he was discharged without a conviction, and we are talking about his livelihood. Employment Law can be a bitch to navigate, so it might be a case of NZR having their bed made for them in this instance.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so could be talking my usual bollocks
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Pretty sensible article from Rachel Smalley on the Herald:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11717472
The judge said if he was to follow conventional sentencing, then he would start from a position of 18 months in prison. But the judge didn't follow a conventional sentencing. Instead, he released Filipo without conviction. And this is what the judge said. "I have to ask myself are the courts in the business of destroying people's career prospects?" The judge felt that a prison sentence would serve no purpose, and it would be in Filipo's long-term interests to be allowed to continue his playing career. A prison sentence would cut that career short. It's an extraordinary case, isn't it? Polarising. But if it's possible to take the emotion out of this, it's clear what the judge is trying to do here. If you put Losi Filipo in prison, that will change the course of his life. His career prospects will be limited. His rugby career will end the moment he walks into jail. If he spends time behind bars, that will possibly fast-track him into a life of crime. Violent crime, too. If, however, he enters the New Zealand rugby system, then he'll be offered an umbrella that will provide structure, guidance, and discipline. And a chance to right the wrongs of his teens. I'm not suggesting that's right, but I can understand this judge's position on this. But if you're one of the four who were assaulted, what does justice look like to you right now? And in particular, to the young man who's playing career has been cut short? That young man who has only just started working again and who continues to suffer migraines and chronic fatigue. Life is pretty miserable, for him. So where do you sit on this? Do you place Losi Filipo in an environment where potentially he can turn his life around. Or do you bang him up in jail, ending his career prospects, and then potentially watch him spend the next 60 years of his life bouncing in and out of our justice system at enormous cost to the country and the taxpayer? What's your take?
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@mariner4life said in Appalling double-standard:
@Bovidae said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
That might be a minefield given he was discharged without a conviction, and we are talking about his livelihood. Employment Law can be a bitch to navigate, so it might be a case of NZR having their bed made for them in this instance.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so could be talking my usual bollocks
Always difficult, although arguably he has brought rugby into disrepute, so there's that angle. I doubt it will end his career though - more likely to be a written warning and he'll be required to undertake the rugby equivalent of community service.
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@Bovidae said in Appalling double-standard:
@WillieTheWaiter While I agree with you, it is about rugby because the judge made it so with the rationale behind his decision. If Filipo had been a factory worker I'm sure he would have received a prison sentence.
I blamed the judge in my original post but NZR has an opportunity to make a stand here and gain some goodwill at the same time.
what exactly are the NZRU supposed to do here - according to the courts this guy is in the clear.
surely if they took action it would leave them open to a legal challenge? No different from if my work took some action against me for something that took place when I wasn't in their employment that I was then cleared about.
The NZRFU keeps getting pointed at to act differently but at the end of the day they're no different from any other employer.
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@No-Quarter said in Appalling double-standard:
Pretty sensible article from Rachel Smalley on the Herald:
If you put Losi Filipo in prison, that will change the course of his life. His career prospects will be limited. His rugby career will end the moment he walks into jail. If he spends time behind bars, that will possibly fast-track him into a life of crime. Violent crime, too. If, however, he enters the New Zealand rugby system, then he'll be offered an umbrella that will provide structure, guidance, and discipline. And a chance to right the wrongs of his teens.
I'm not suggesting that's right, but I can understand this judge's position on this.
But if you're one of the four who were assaulted, what does justice look like to you right now?
And in particular, to the young man who's playing career has been cut short? That young man who has only just started working again and who continues to suffer migraines and chronic fatigue. Life is pretty miserable, for him.
So where do you sit on this? Do you place Losi Filipo in an environment where potentially he can turn his life around. Or do you bang him up in jail, ending his career prospects, and then potentially watch him spend the next 60 years of his life bouncing in and out of our justice system at enormous cost to the country and the taxpayer?
What's your take?
I totally agree with what she's saying RE: prison etc.
my issue with it is that he has totally escaped any form of punishment!
10k reparation for each victim would be a starting point...
Appalling double-standard