Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@mn5 when the Tree was playing was about when you at least watched rugby too!
I'm younger, slimmer, taller and less grey than you. Please take your lame trolling efforts elsewhere.
The tree retired six years before I was born.
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@mn5 fuck yeah
Has fame/entertainment/self entitlement got to the point that people can't recognise the difference between their own lives and someone elses?
@MajorRage your original post was immediately recognisable as a "I've got something to say" at the end of a few drinks high - I been there
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@mn5 sorry king of the comebacks...forgot you are such a verile young athletic young stallion
You mentioned young twice. Have you been drinking while watching the cricket?
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@mn5 what kind of lightweight could get drunk watching the cricket? (BTW only saw Pakistani score, no idea if they batted first)
Posting on a phone does that.
It would have taken some extra strong brews to get hammered watching Pakistan bat.
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Ditto most of the above.
Shitty for the ABs that he’s going, but let’s be realistic it’s unlikely that he’d ever get the 10 shirt ahead of BB, and depending on how the super 5 plays out, he may not even get a bench spot any more.
There is always someone else who will step up, so thanks for your service Lima, make hay while the sun shines.
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@rapido said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
I 100% agree with this.
But I hold them to an unwritten 'don't jump ship 12 moths out if you've absorbed resources and games' rule.
I have no issue with cashing in, or even using the ABs to increase your value. As long as that is not timed detrimentally.
I can see that Lima thinks Ritchie may be on verge of surpassing him and he can see selectors want to develop DMac as the bench specialist. But we all know plans get scuttled.
He can go in 24 months time with no repercussions or ill will. He can go in 12 months time letting down a lot of people .
Who is he letting down? He's done some good stuff in an AB jersey and if he wants to fuck off how is this any different to the hundreds who've done so before?
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@mn5 said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@mn5 what kind of lightweight could get drunk watching the cricket? (BTW only saw Pakistani score, no idea if they batted first)
Posting on a phone does that.
It would have taken some extra strong brews to get hammered watching Pakistan bat.
Unless you had to scull/skoll/skull (how to you spell that?) finish your pint with each wicket.
6 pints in half an hour ... -
@mn5 said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@rapido said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
I 100% agree with this.
But I hold them to an unwritten 'don't jump ship 12 moths out if you've absorbed resources and games' rule.
I have no issue with cashing in, or even using the ABs to increase your value. As long as that is not timed detrimentally.
I can see that Lima thinks Ritchie may be on verge of surpassing him and he can see selectors want to develop DMac as the bench specialist. But we all know plans get scuttled.
He can go in 24 months time with no repercussions or ill will. He can go in 12 months time letting down a lot of people .
Who is he letting down? He's done some good stuff in an AB jersey and if he wants to fuck off how is this any different to the hundreds who've done so before?
Hundreds?
I can't think of any, but there probably is one he two, who have left a year before a World Cup. I've compared it earlier to Timu who is the only other I can think of.
But someone else has pointed out he is giving a years warning that he ha bailing a year before world cup, and that that is a fair point.
Ive said earlier in thread how I actually think Piutau was harshly treated in 2015. So that should give an idea how 'I' think it is different. But I could see how Piutau's treatment by AB selectors could make a Sops think bugger it, there is no good time.
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So who will finish his career happier: Lima Sopoaga or Stephen Donald?
If you play for the money, you may end up richer, but unlikely happier. It's not like Lima is badly paid at present.
Piutau is loaded, but misses playing for his country. He should have thought about that when he decided to play for the ABs in the first place, so I have zero sympathy.
I'd put money on Lima regretting his choice eventually.
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@chester-draws said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
So who will finish his career happier: Lima Sopoaga or Stephen Donald?
If you play for the money, you may end up richer, but unlikely happier. It's not like Lima is badly paid at present.
Piutau is loaded, but misses playing for his country. He should have thought about that when he decided to play for the ABs in the first place, so I have zero sympathy.
I'd put money on Lima regretting his choice eventually.
To quote the great David Lee Roth, “No, money will not buy you happiness. But’ll it buy you a big f#ckin’ boat to sail right up next to it.”
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Different people are motivated by different things I guess ,
Some will look at their careers as an opportunity to maximize their earning potential , retire with as much as they can , some will seek happiness by achievements ,
Lima could hang around , he could even end up playing in the 10 jersey in a WC final , funnier things have happened ,
or he could even miss selection altogether , who knows , there are no crystal balls ,He has decided to grab the cash on offer , his call ,
I am concerned by the constant player drain though , we have survived it well so far , cant help but wonder , sooner or later it might take its toll .
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@rapido said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@mn5 said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@rapido said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
I 100% agree with this.
But I hold them to an unwritten 'don't jump ship 12 moths out if you've absorbed resources and games' rule.
I have no issue with cashing in, or even using the ABs to increase your value. As long as that is not timed detrimentally.
I can see that Lima thinks Ritchie may be on verge of surpassing him and he can see selectors want to develop DMac as the bench specialist. But we all know plans get scuttled.
He can go in 24 months time with no repercussions or ill will. He can go in 12 months time letting down a lot of people .
Who is he letting down? He's done some good stuff in an AB jersey and if he wants to fuck off how is this any different to the hundreds who've done so before?
Hundreds?
I can't think of any, but there probably is one he two, who have left a year before a World Cup. I've compared it earlier to Timu who is the only other I can think of.
But someone else has pointed out he is giving a years warning that he ha bailing a year before world cup, and that that is a fair point.
Ive said earlier in thread how I actually think Piutau was harshly treated in 2015. So that should give an idea how 'I' think it is different. But I could see how Piutau's treatment by AB selectors could make a Sops think bugger it, there is no good time.
If you count fringe ABs then it gets in the hundreds.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
I am concerned by the constant player drain though , we have survived it well so far , cant help but wonder , sooner or later it might take its toll .
I think it has taken a toll already. People like Faumuina, Luatua and Piutau would all have been handy on the EOYT. It's hurt the Jaapies and it's hurt Oz and it will hurt us.
If Beaudy breaks his leg during Super rugby, we're going to be scratching around with Mo'unga and DMac - or wasting caps on Lima. And how about if someone turns up with $10 million for Beauden?
Now, I think there's no doubt that at some levels having people bugger off overseas is a benefit to NZ rugby. It helps clean out the mediocre and ageing - and opens up pathways for the younger and better. But, people who are among the top two or three in their positions hurts us.
I don't give these guys a free pass - they're sell outs so fuck 'em. They're taking our collective intellectual property and they're cashing in our culture.
I think we should send them on their way with a boot in the arse and don't hurry back rather than a fare-thee-well and good on you for getting richer.
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@majorrage I'm not sure why you targeted this thread at PIs, it seems you put too much stock in twitter exchanges and one discussion with Tialata (a guy who spent 6 years in the ABs playing 43 tests).
Sopoaga hasn't ever said he wants to switch to Samoa (or the Cooks) and Piutau's wanting to switch as come after he shot his load. I think Piutau really thought he would have played in the 2015 RWC so likely could have started his NH contract as a WC winner, but he got that wrong. Hell Bundee Aki left and decided to play for Ireland.
Also, it's not as if it's only PIs that ditch NZ in their prime. Hayman, McAlister and Evans left when they had years of AB matches to play. Recent AB 10s Tom Taylor and Colin Slade left recently and they were similar ages or younger than Sopoaga at the time.
Also, I don't think there's any point making comparisons to league, the Kiwis have been an amateur shit show over the past two years and despite all the hype only three players on the Kiwis radar (JT, Fusitua and Taukeiaho) defected to Tonga and none of the Samoans did. The ABs are never going to be a clusterfuck like the Kiwis (unless Mitchell comes back or Hammett managed to somehow fall his way to the top I guess :)).
Anyway, Lima is a loss, but Cruden was the bigger loss.
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@chris-b I still think the biggest loss isnt necessarily frontline ABs, more those on the fringes of AB and definite Super rugby starters, these are the guys that leave bigger holes to fill as they are the ones who will end up playing rugby for thier province while the ABs are out and as such probably contribute better to the local scenes.
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Ultimately the appeal of the ABs to the players is probably a lot closer to that of the Patriots, Storm, Spurs, Red Wings of the 90s and Warriors (the Golden State variety) than they myth/legend crap that gets trotted out by NH scribes and marketing agencies.
Teams like the ABs provide a stable organization with a recent history of winning, a collection of elite players and top tier coaching. We've seen time and time again there is a group of players - usually the ultra driven ones - that will sacrifice money and fame to play in that environment.
Unlike those professional teams that theoretically have an expiry date, as a national team providing we keep replenishing the cupboards with new talent (or run off our elite talent with a Mitch style coach) the sun should never set on the ABs.
Not every player is wired that way and thank God for that because it makes it a lot easier to have them leave voluntarily than check out mentally and still be under NZRU contract.
I have absolutely no issue with Lima leaving - he already missed RWC selection in 2015. I'm sure it sucked at the time but Lima doesn't owe the ABs or NZRU anything, especially given the role he has been given in the AB set up. He has no obligation to hang around and see if the he required for the next RWC when there is every chance he might get the Weepu 2007 treatment.
The other thing we often forget, while not relevant to Lima, is that for fringe All Blacks Super Rugby and ITM Cup is a bulk of their "job". If you were playing in a toxic environment for the Blues at some point over the past 10 years I don't expect the two caps off the bench for the ABs as injury call up to weigh strongly in your decision making.