Grace Millane
-
@jegga said in Grace Millane:
Alison Mau really is a self aggrandising attention whore
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109298474/grace-millane-why-a-vigil-feels-right-right-now
Thanks heaps Alison. Was wondering how you felt about everything.
-
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
@mn5 But I suspect thousands of New Zealanders do or have done a Google news search or a Twitter search and have found out.
Let the press report everything, including crimes and alleged crimes freely. Then trust juries to judge cases on the evidence presented to them in court and come to the right decisions.
Are you being purposely naive or moronic? I can't figure out which.
-
@bones said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
@mn5 But I suspect thousands of New Zealanders do or have done a Google news search or a Twitter search and have found out.
Let the press report everything, including crimes and alleged crimes freely. Then trust juries to judge cases on the evidence presented to them in court and come to the right decisions.
Are you being purposely naive or moronic? I can't figure out which.
Yes, this post is definitely on the spectrum.....
-
@jegga Perhaps Alison will provide a checklist so we can all ensure we care/express our emotions in a way she approves of.
I am so bloody sick of people mentioning the word shame. Or the peddling of the 'she should have been safe' narrative. Nowhere is 100% safe. Bad things happen because there are other humans involved, and humans can be unpredictable, emotional, lacking in self-control, and just downright sick.
-
@mokey said in Grace Millane:
@jegga Perhaps Alison will provide a checklist so we can all ensure we care/express our emotions in a way she approves of.
I am so bloody sick of people mentioning the word shame. Or the peddling of the 'she should have been safe' narrative. Nowhere is 100% safe. Bad things happen because there are other humans involved, and humans can be unpredictable, emotional, lacking in self-control, and just downright sick.
This
The way she jumped on board and appointed herself the leader of #metoonewzealand was pretty shameless.
She should have been safe ? Travelling around the world on her own always surrounded by strangers? Yeah ok .
-
I agree she should have been safe. Just as I should have been safe walking anywhere in Buenos Aires or parts of Cambodia or any of the other places I have been warned never to venture.
I guess I should have been able to get a drink in the Old Rising Sun pub right here in Auckland rather than be told I was the wrong fucking colour and that if I stayed another minute both my legs would get broken.
People should feel safe on the streets, with strangers - in their own homes - day or night - anywhere, anytime.
Unfortunately that ain't the world we live in. Never has been and sadly probably never will be and no amount of posturing hysteria is going to alter that.
Grace Millane's father obviously realises this and has responded with a personal dignity in devastating circumstances that is a true salute to his daughters too short life. The social and mainstream media moirologists and our PM should follow his example instead of trying to outdo each other with displays of faux grief and outrage.
-
hate needing to google word meanings...
-
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
hate needing to google word meanings...
I like the challenge of being taught new words.
-
@bones Just voicing my opinion, however unfashionable that may be......
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.
-
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion, and as such would most certainly sway some peoples opinion because of a slanted article they read or a post they saw on Facebook.
In this case, even without knowing his name I expect plenty have already determined thier opinion, so not sure what difference releasing his name makes anyway, if anything I think it would endanger his family and friends more due to the high profile nature of this case, cos there are fuckwits among us.
-
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion.....
No, I'm endorsing trial by jury and the media to be free to report as they see fit. I have faith in the jury system to robustly assess whether the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, irrespective of what the Fourth Estate choose to publish.
-
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
-
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@antipodean said in Grace Millane:
Apologies to TR, but people who can't get out of jury duty...
Not sure what you meant by this?
But over the past 5 or 10 years it has become increasingly harder (and onerous even for self employed persons) to get off Jury Service (not sure if this is nationwide or just up here...) I went through a period over 6 or 7 years where I was called up at least twice a year but never got on the Jury...even the impending birth of my daughter wasnt enough to get me off attending...the one way I did get off though, was to simply not turn up, I then didnt get called up for 4 years.
I diverted a call up to next near. A no show? I did not think of that strategy.....
-
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
@taniwharugby said in Grace Millane:
@sparky said in Grace Millane:
I don't see the principles of a free press, innocence until proven guilty and jury-based justice as inherently mutually exclusive.
But as ever I am willing to engage rationally and politely with those who may think differently from myself.well the Jury I sat on this week, the evidence was such that the guy was found Not Guilty on both charges the Crown was trying him for.
I expect many cases are like that, but you are are endorsing trial by media and public opinion.....
No, I'm endorsing trial by jury and the media to be free to report as they see fit. I have faith in the jury system to robustly assess whether the accused are guilty beyond reasonable doubt, irrespective of what the Fourth Estate choose to publish.
The NZ Law society has been critical of the media's reporting, potentially compromising the case. Although not explicitly stated I'd say Jacinda's little speech would be included in that.
The jury process basically boils down to a handful of individuals that are liable, like all of us, to be influenced by what they see/hear and also by public pressure to throw the book at someone in a high profile case. Fundamental to our society is the rights of everyone to a fair trial no matter what, if you throw that out the window things fall apart pretty quickly.
As it stands we don't have any of the facts, yet he's already been found guilty by the media, social media and even our idiotic PM before it's started.
-
@taniwharugby the old saying goes something like "trust your fate to 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty".
I don't know how difficult that has become as I've never been called upon. And as a contractor I'd be reticent to do so.