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I really don't like the UKIP. I would say it's mainly because of who they are, and less about what they represent. Different points of view are healthy and good for a vibrant society, and for that part, I'm glad they exist and do what they do. But when I hear almost all of their people speak, I really don't want them anywhere near a government position.
Having said that, I think it's only fair to look at what Rembrandt has posted and write down my thoughts on each. I may even learn something.
@Rembrandt said in Brexit:
Immigration
Mass uncontrolled immigration has been extremely damaging to Britain. We have imported cheap labour by the million. This not only exploits migrants but depresses the wages and living standards of those at the bottom end of the economic scale, and drives up property prices and rental costs. In 1997 the official British population figure was 58 million people. The figure in 2017 was 66 million. A recent report showed that the 6.6 million population growth between 2000-2016 was 80% due to migrants and births to migrants. Such a rate of increase is simply unsustainable in one of the most densely populated countries in the world.I agree it's unsustainable, but I don't agree with all the inferences made. Ultimately, Brexit result was fairly heavily leaned on by peoples thoughts on immigration, and the above seems to be a play on that. The policy also seems to forget that there was a demand for cheap labour, and a lot of this was simply a product of supply and demand. IT's easy to say that lower paid jobs were stolen by immigrants, but doesn't questions if there were ever British applicants for these jobs. Look at the Cornish horticulturalists crying out for staff now - if the above is fully accurate, why don't they have a plethora of Brits signing up for the work?
And has anybody in the UKIP ever been sick / in an accident? The NHS is royally fucked without EU and non EU staff. Royally.
UKIP believes that the age of uncontrolled mass-immigration must come to an end. We have open borders with the EU but successive British governments have also failed to control immigration from outside of the EU. UKIP will introduce a selective and limited Australian style points-based immigration system. Immigration for permanent settlement must be strictly limited.
Personally, I actually agree with this. But I don't think this works for Britain. There are far too many people who have come here legally who wouldn't qualify on points systems and have made contributions to society.
Temporary immigration for workers on work permits and students will be both strictly controlled and time-limited.
I would be interested to learn more about how this would change things.
UKIP will develop the UK Border Force into a Migration Control Department directly responsible to a Minister. This department will oversee the immigration system and border control.
Again, this reads well, but I don't see how this will change anything. I guess the suggestion is make it seem like immigration is more of the government focus.
Migrants will not be able to claim public housing or benefits until they have been a tax paying resident in UK for a continuous five years.
This seems a bit blanket. It reads to me as a play on people who think that is all migrants do. Also, what is the definition of tax paying. I didn't work for my first 9 months here, but I did buy a house and renovate it. Stamp & VAT were applicable on these. Add VAT on basic living expenses (food, petrol, clothes) and I would have paid over 100k in Taxes. Yet, I'm not tax-paying. Average wage in this country is 29k. That person pays 3,000 in taxes. Lets assume they pay a generous 25% of the rest of their wage in VAT etc. That means they pay the govt about 10k p/year in taxes. So I paid 10 years tax in my first year, but I'm not considered a tax payer, and therefore not eligible for any benefits.
Workers on permits and students will be expected to possess private health insurance as a condition of entry to the UK (unless covered by a reciprocal medical treatment agreement).
I had to pay 1500 GBP in an NHS medical advance to move here as apart of my Visa. If you have private insurance, does that go? It would have to right? Does this offset? Which countries have reciprocal agreements?
UKIP will rescind the UK’s assent to the Barcelona Declaration (1995) and the Marrakesh Declaration (2018). Both of these documents pave the way for yet more uncontrolled and unlimited immigration from Africa, the Middle East and beyond
Don't know enough about this to comment really. A quick bit of research seems to only show far ideals on it. The UKIP policies appear to be based on immigration of poorer countries into the UK, which would be in line with above.
So what's my summary then? Perhaps my view is already entrenched and I inherently refuse to give them a chance, but I see little of their policies which can be implemented without more far reach consequences. I also think their policies would strongly put me off living here (or moving here) which is not a good thing for the country (head kissing my own arse moment, but fuck it - this country is better with me than without me).
Still like the fact they exist, as they make people question things. But I don't see enough substance to give them move vote.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Siam Am not yet ... I get half a vote though as my wife thinks I should have a say so we discuss what to vote for before she does just what she wants.
FIFY
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Siam Am not yet ... I get half a vote though as my wife thinks I should have a say so we discuss what to vote for before she does just what she wants.
FIFY
Who am I kidding ... the above is probably accurate!
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@MiketheSnow said in Brexit:
Farage is a one-trick pony - leaving the EU - and when questioned about his domestic policies either ignores or trots out the tired old routine of 'vote us in, we'll get us out (of Europe), and then we'll tell you what we're going to do in and for the UK'
But aside from defeating the Nazis Mr. Churchill, what is your policy subsidies for beekeepers?
Perhaps it is a function of being exposed to MMP in NZ and a bicameral legistlature in Australia but I have no issue with one issue party. If an Australian party were running in the current election for upper house seats on a ticket on abolishing the senate I would not need to know their policy on much else.
I thought the same until I moved to Queensland...
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
Without the immigrant workers, skilled and unskilled in the NHS it would be fucked.
But isn't that a good example of the managed immigration policy (the UK deciding what qualifications, skills, ability to speak English, etc are needed) that Farage advocates?
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Farage is being a complete twat though. Goes on his second interview in a week on the Beeb and bitches about how the beeb don't give him coverage. The man is learning directly from the orange president
Straight out of the Trump playbook. The BBC interview was dire and simply aided Farage's narrative of a out-of-touch, rich, liberal elite who have let people down. He even used "drain the swamp" when attacking the BBC
And now he's polling higher than labour & the conservatives combined
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You have a point there. I don’t think any sane person is against controlled immigration but in the main that is what we have. Not 100% for sure but that is an impossible wish. I don’t really see that Farage has come up with a feasible policy as yet, it’s more of an abstract “this isn’t working, we have to change it”.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
I don’t think any sane person is against controlled immigration but in the main that is what we have.
We don't have controlled immigration with the EU - where the majority of immigration is from.
I don’t really see that Farage has come up with a feasible policy as yet
UKIP's policy under Farage was pretty clear - an Oz-based points system & controlled access to benefits/public services. How effective it would be is another matter
The main immigration policy of the main parties appears to have been to avoid discussing any negative impacts it and/or accuse those worried about its impact on their area or job prospects as racists or bigots. Pretty dumb really.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
I don’t think any sane person is against controlled immigration but in the main that is what we have.
We don't have controlled immigration with the EU - where the majority of immigration is from.
I think you're confusing immigration with freedom of movement?
I don’t really see that Farage has come up with a feasible policy as yet
UKIP's policy under Farage was pretty clear - an Oz-based points system & controlled access to benefits/public services. How effective it would be is another matter
Clearly stated but in reality pretty vague. No real answers except go with what Aus does, not even acknowledging that our situation is quite different to that of Aus.
The main immigration policy of the main parties appears to have been to avoid discussing any negative impacts it and/or accuse those worried about its impact on their area or job prospects as racists or bigots. Pretty dumb really.
Agree wholeheartedly and this is why Farage has achieved the traction that he has. If having Farage around goes anyway to getting our pollies to address these concerns he would have been worthwhile.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
I think you're confusing immigration with freedom of movement?
Same thing. EU freedom of movement = open borders/zero immigration control.
If having Farage around goes anyway to getting our pollies to address these concerns he would have been worthwhile.
Not convinced as a whole they even want to understand the concerns that whole swathes of the population have on immigration. Like the Brexit referendum result, they hope if they ignore it, it will go away.
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- I think we will have to agree to disagree.
- I think we can agree to agree.
😀
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Great call in the comments section
MaxNronnie
You could do with throwing more food fatty
Get your sugar intake down
14 hours ago -
@MiketheSnow said in Brexit:
Great call in the comments section
MaxNronnie
You could do with throwing more food fatty
Get your sugar intake down
14 hours agoIt's probably fat nards like him not foreigners who are clogging up the NHS.
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I see that Brexit is gettig blamed for the collapse of Jamie Oliver’s restaurant empire. Is nothing sacred?
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Brexit:
I see that Brexit is gettig blamed for the collapse of Jamie Oliver’s restaurant empire. Is nothing sacred?
If that's factually correct it may well sway my view on Brexit...
Brexit