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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@canefan We'll see I guess. Not around here though.
We are hardly representative of the country
No, we aren't. I wasn't actually referring to the Fern specifically.
I would be keen on seeing more Polish chicks around though.
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@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@canefan We'll see I guess. Not around here though.
We are hardly representative of the country
No, we aren't. I wasn't actually referring to the Fern specifically.
I would be keen on seeing more Polish chicks around though.
I figured you meant the Fern, The Polish thing is unsurprising too
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@Kirwan I am aware that Nats are spending large on social media but I don't do Farcebook as I'm in no way interested in knowing when someone needs to take a dump. I don't watch television news either but I have seen lots of images of Collins in a hi viz with a rictus grin.
There's plenty of faux policy coming out but it's all recycled garbage that didn't excite the electorate when Nats were led by Key and English so how is it going to now?
I think National have given up and this whole election is about damage limitation. I'd far rather they go on the attack and hold Labour to account for their many bungles. Of course as was pointed out by doing so they risk highlighting their own many incompetencies.
TBH I think politicians of every ilk are over 2020 as much as the rest of us. All I hope for from this election is the final permanent rejection of Winnie and NZF.
8-10 seats for ACT would do as well.
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@dogmeat didn't Soiman try that route? The sheeple backlash was strong and he lost his job. Ardern is borderline untouchable with middle NZ right now. Now if the Fern was representative of most of NZ that strategy would be very effective....
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@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
All I hope for from this election is the final permanent rejection of Winnie and NZF.
Amen.
That will also make the whole election closer and more interesting. I haven't decided to vote yet, based on the hope that NZF and the Greens are gone makes it really difficult.
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@Snowy I can't stand Winston, but with each batshit crazy policy the Greens come out with, the thought of them and Labour governing together gives me hives. Don't think the Nats will get enough votes, even if Act hits 5% for the first time. Scary to me is Labour just needing the Greens to govern.
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@taniwharugby Yes. Pretty tough to vote when you don’t know what you are voting for.
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@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@taniwharugby Yes. Pretty tough to vote when you don’t know what you are voting for.
you have to vote mate. Just not the Greens. Even if NZF made it at least you know Winnie will cock block the left bloc's crazier ideas
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@Godder said in NZ Politics:
Doesn't look like Labour have any great ambitions to massive structural changes, so I don't think there will be much radical change coming.
They actually seem to be trying to do a John Key and occupy more of the space each side of the centre
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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
Doesn't look like Labour have any great ambitions to massive structural changes, so I don't think there will be much radical change coming.
They actually seem to be trying to do a John Key and occupy more of the space each side of the centre
.... which is kind of exactly what MMP is designed to do. Empower parties, drive centrist government.
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@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
.... which is kind of exactly what MMP is designed to do. Empower parties, drive centrist government.
Designed to and doesn't achieve might be closer.
I should be clearer there - you do end up with radicals on both sides and they can get a disproportionate amount of seats to me. The last letter is relevant. -
@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
Doesn't look like Labour have any great ambitions to massive structural changes, so I don't think there will be much radical change coming.
They actually seem to be trying to do a John Key and occupy more of the space each side of the centre
.... which is kind of exactly what MMP is designed to do. Empower parties, drive centrist government.
Seems to water down any grander ambitions. No more think big, Rogernomics or Richardson budgets, for better or worse. The biggest failing of the Key government was their failure to make grand changes, perhaps because Key was always conscious of trying to keep power instead of using it?
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@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@nzzp said in NZ Politics:
@canefan said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
Doesn't look like Labour have any great ambitions to massive structural changes, so I don't think there will be much radical change coming.
They actually seem to be trying to do a John Key and occupy more of the space each side of the centre
.... which is kind of exactly what MMP is designed to do. Empower parties, drive centrist government.
Seems to water down any grander ambitions.
absolutely. John Key 'got' MMP. So did Clark. It's making hundreds of tiny moves, and not being wedded to any of them - abandoning anything that gets unpopular. I get it, but dno't necessarily like it.
Also, any of those fringe parties are heavily moderated. It's like the swing justice in the supreme court - it's the party controlling the 61st seat across the centre that drives the policy
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I just hope it empowers more centrist voters for anyone but the Greens. With decent environmental policies, both main parties could make them utterly irrelevant. We don't need a party that hates farmers, anyone who has accumulated a million, or been promoted to a six figure salary. With tourism currently fucked, agriculture can keep the country going. To crush that sector now with mass new regulations and carbon tax stuff would fuck the country for good.
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@mokey The Green party are only that in name and as you say should be completely irrelevant.
The only person that I know that has voted Green was a surgeon that was trying to get into the pants of a woman who has green ideals but wasn't dim enough to vote for them. A psychologist that had read the policies.
Hopefully the "greens" are gone (that misnomer pisses me off) - then we could have an "environmental" party (not at my place like Tony Brown).
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European green parties are pretty left wing by NZ standards, but since the Overton Window is left of NZ in those countries, they appear centrist.
That aside, the Greens believe that a steady state economy is required to achieve environmental goals, and that climate change is an existential issue for civilisation, so their economic view of the world is fundamentally incompatible with National since neither party looks like agreeing with the other on this.
Politically it's also pointless since centrist environmental parties never get anywhere in NZ - TOP is probably the closest to the mark in decades.
Organisationally, it's unlikely as they are very democratic, so a policy shift like that would require either a lot of new members (to vote in new policies) or a big change of philosophy of the current members.
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@Godder said in NZ Politics:
@Snowy said in NZ Politics:
@Godder said in NZ Politics:
If you have a pattern of buying and selling your main home, you may still have some tax to pay.
Which is what we were talking about at the beginning. It's already there. Our tax regime covers this stuff already.
Agree, I was just posting to tidy up the last misconception (that a family home is always exempt from income tax on capital gains).
The main reasons houses are expensive are the cost of materials and that people budget on weekly payments, so low interest means they can afford a bigger mortgage so they offer more.
Cost of materials are very high in nz, but most people don't build. Sure, that encourages more people to buy than build, which has some impact on demand, but it doesn't explain the extent of the price rise of every 1950s piece of shit that we've seen over the past 10 years. Nor do the interest rates of the last year.
These things make it worse, but they are by no means the full story. -
@Kirwan said in NZ Politics:
@dogmeat said in NZ Politics:
Is anyone else totally bemused by the National Party strategy - assuming there is one?
It seems to be fatally flawed to me. Trying to make Collins all cutesy and user friendly. Never going to win that battle. Might as well channel the inner pit bull and go all out.
If it was me I'd be campaigning along the lines of Vote Labour if you want moonbeams and unicorns but not if you want stuff done. Kiwibuild, Light Rail, Child Poverty, Pay Inequality, Secure Borders?
Kiwibuild, Light Rail, Child Poverty, Pay Inequality, Secure Borders
Put the snarl up against the Smile. Probably doomed to fail but at least you'd be trying. All National seem to be trying to achieve is something better than 2002My Facebook is full of National announcements on policy and trying to set a vision. Good long term planning type stuff. Not sure where you are seeing the cutesy stuff, but I guess on TV?
To me it looks like they are positioning themselves as the party that can things done, and Labour as the party of broken promises (they are stacking up now) and people out of their depth.
Will it be enough change the media narrative, particularly about Taxinda? Probably not, but at least there are ideas being talked about instead of babies and the gender of a leader.
Obviously you're a righty, but why Taxinda? What tax increases have there been?
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