-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="571972" data-time="1460539951">
<div>
<p><strong>So you are saying that Channel 4 and the polling done... and the left wing commentator and former head of the Human rights and equality commission in the UK are all biased</strong>.... based on? Seems like you are actually just sticking your fingers in your ears and singing LALALALA </p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>no I didn't, I didn't say anything of the sort. I'm choosing not to watch one fricken commercial TV show - what's with the infantile lalalala stuff??</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Your first hand friendships and relationships with Muslims do not tell you that the terrorists don't represent Islam. They tell you that the terrorists do not represent all Muslims.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Pedant</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>errrr.... how about this quote below from you then?? Cause it sure sounds like you are saying the Islam ideology should not be criticised.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Criticising religion has been done for centuries and has achieved nothing. It's a pointless exercise which galvanises a religion. That's pragmatism, not being an apologist. Choosing not to criticise something does not mean that you fully support it</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Yes I criticise the ideology alot. So what? I do think you are an apoloigist for the Islamic religion and its effects. You even now rail against it being criticised. If you believe a religion keeps promoting fucked up horrible dogma... you should stop criticising it after awhile? Why?</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Why does it have to be one or the other? Critciser or apologist. Criticising a religion has been about as effective as praying for it to go away. I'd much rather understand why non muslims seek to become terrorists than criticise the peaceful majority among a social group</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Why is it an accepted and irreversible norm for mass immigration of Muslims to the west? Why cannot NZ simply stop Muslim immigration? It may be to late for Europe to stop the invasion, but should they just capitulate and let a political religion take over?</p>
<p>And no your look at individual behavior is not more realistic, because you are ignoring the underlying ideology and refusing to see any links.</p>
<p> </p>
<div> </div>
<div><strong>Why can't I be an All Black??? Theoretically you can but realistically it's not going to happen so stop banging on about it</strong></div>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So arrest a few Immans for practising a religion that preaches death to homosexuals and slavery of women?</p>
<p>Ok. Seems a bit harsh.. but if that is your idea.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>Leaders of terrorism - why do you insist on specifics for some points and then make up generalisations for others?</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>You're one weird fella. You realise that by "your rules" for debating topics, it's ok to flay people for what they haven't actually said? You're the one using a ww2 scenario for a world not at war</strong></p>
</div>
</blockquote> -
"Why does it have to be one or the other? Critciser or apologist. Criticising a religion has been about as effective as praying for it to go away. I'd much rather understand why non muslims seek to become terrorists than criticise the peaceful majority among a social group"<br><br>
I have to strongly disagree with that. Religion only began to lose its very strong grip on the western world when people began to question it and openly oppose it. How is that supposed to occur with Islam when everyone freaks out at the very thought of criticising it, not to mention the utterly absurd argument that criticising Islam equates to racism. -
<p>Actually Siam you said that that you had no confidence they could provide an unbiased view. Based on precisely nothing. And your justification for saying they would be biased... they have some crap TV shows and are commercial. </p>
<p>You bought up bias, nobody else. I can only assume you did this in some pathetic attempt to discredit the findings and the presenter... who I would suggest knows far more on this topic (from both sides) than either of us</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Pedant? Because I proved you contradicted yourself in your own post? Tough, if you are going to show such muddled thinking, blame nobody but yourself. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Are you seriously saying that criticism of religion has not achieved anything?? Wow.... guess the changes in the Christian religion went right past you.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You seem to have an incredibly appeasing attitude to Islam, how evil does an ideology have to get before you would criticise it? Or would you never criticise an ideology because you think it is pointless? Would you criticise the Nazi doctrine and ideology?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And why would you rather see why non Muslims become terrorists? Was that a typo?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As for arresting Immans.... do you not agree with arresting people who say that Homosexuals should be killed? I thought would fit right in with your idea of not criticising the ideology.. just those that push (and lead) the hateful parts?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I would argue that the lack of inspection and crticism of Islam is the exact reason why most of the radicalisation is happening. </p> -
<p>Firstly, this thread is incorrectly named isn't it? Lets call a spade a spade - it's an anti Muslim/Islam thread. I bet all of us on here live in pretty successful <strong>multicultural</strong> societies.</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><strong>The UK </strong>and indeed the rest of Europe are in big trouble IMO.
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>The article you posted wasn't near as alarming as you're making out. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>4% of those surveyed said they had some sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings, or commit terrorist acts as a from of political protest. 96% didn't have any sympathy and we don't even know why the 4% had sympathy or for what aspect of anything.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A 1/4 said that they can understand why British girls become Jihadi brides. What the fuck does that even mean, it doesn't mean shit, it doesn't mean they favour it, it just means they think they know why - and likely they probably have no clue anyway.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Only 47% agreed that Muslims should do more to tackle extremism. So what, most Muslims are likely just getting on with their lives like the rest of us. Being from the same broad cultural group doesn't mean you know have to keep that group in line. It's like when a Maori child is killed it's always 'whats the Maori community going to do about it?", fuck off, I don't bash kids, why should I have to do something about it just because I'm Maori, I'd like to do something about it because I'm human and hate kids being abused and killed, but because I'm Maori. White males are more likely to be convicted for being pedophiles, yet all white males aren't held to account for them.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>52% think homosexuality should be illegal, bigoted pricks, but our generation lived in a time were it was illegal to be gay in NZ. Some will come around, some wont, no different than other population groups. 39% believe wives should obey their husbands, pricks again, but hardly damning, we could have an influx to NZ of Southern Baptists with similar views. 31% in favour of polygamy, weirdos - from the comments on here having one whinging wife is more than enough, but at any rate not likely to happen anytime soon. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><strong>Multiculturalism</strong> has always created more issues than it has solutions. It's no co-incidence that the countries with the least engaging immigration policies (nordic countries, finland, japan, singapore etc) have some of the strongest education results across the globe.
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Singapore is a multicultural country with a large number of Malay, Chinese, and Indians contributing to those education results. Also, odd that you mention nordic countries when Sweden is often one of the places mentioned as a place that's apparently lost control when this thread repeats itself under a different title every month or so. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">I'm coming around 100% to the idea that if you want Sharia law, then fuck off back to a country where Sharia law is in place.
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Wouldn't most people be behind that idea? That's probably one of the least radical comments you've ever made on the Fern.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="571923" data-time="1460529398">
<div>
<p>I think that is the path that has been trialed and shown to fail.. with obvious reasons.</p>
<p>It is like treating individual Nazis whilst not criticising the Nazi ideology.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The findings of that study move towards disproving the message that it is a nothing to do with the ideology.</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>What study are you talking about here? The one you posted in that article? They didn't really move towards disproving anything. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Furthermore, comparing Nazi ideology and Nazi Germany with Islam is not even close to apples with apples. One was an ideology that dominated a nation state, the other is a religion that is practiced in many different forms (even though you have a belief that it can only be practiced one way) throughout the world.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<p> </p>
<p><span style="font-size:12px;background-color:rgb(247,247,247);">There is nothing wrong with criticising an ideology. The fact that some seem to think there is, just shows far we have fallen.</span></p>
<p> </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Has anyone actually said that? I'll quite happily criticise aspects of Islam - and Christianity too for that matter, and Judaism, etc, however I'm not going to criticise all people who follow any of those ideologies in their own way by the actions of some. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="571919" data-time="1460523532">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's appalling behaviour from "leaders" which results in innocent people being victimised (on both sides) but scant attention is paid to those at the top.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>I prefer to label the behaviour of individual people rather than the ideology they purport to represent. Deal with individual behaviour, not social groups</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>No idea if I'm right or wrong, but as I said earlier - define behavioural parameters then adjudicate objectively. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Agree with that, although I'm happy to deal with social groups (e.g. Muslim terrorists) when they're specific - as opposed to Muslims full stop. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have no issue with the law being outlined to all new immigrants to NZ, and if they break that law then they can get locked up and/or sent back to where they came from. I don't care if they're white South African, Muslim, Chinese, British, Hindu or whatever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="571974" data-time="1460540233">
<div>
<p>Nonsense, I never said ALL Muslims will committ acts of terror. I understand that many choose to interpret the Quran differently, <strong>but at the end of the day they are following an ideology that is in direct conflict with freedom of speech and thought.</strong> It must be difficult for them to reconcile their beliefs with the values of Western society, and the fact is a lot of them have shown empathy for the extremist nutjobs. They take personal offense at their ideology being questioned, and believe that there should be some form of punishment for doing so.<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>That's a cop out, there are ideologies in the West that are in conflict with freedom of speech and thought, and those people have to reconcile their beliefs with modern western society too. Also, your final comments highlight the fact that the loudest voices are the ones that get heard. There's a bunch of Muslim people who have no empathy whatsoever for extremist nutjobs, but that doesn't sell newspapers or draw in viewers. About 1of the 10 or so links on the first Google page about this poll focus on the fact that 96% of Muslim's polled have no sympathy for terrorists while the rest focus on homosexuality and sharia law. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>To illustrate the loudest noise point again, such is the noise that the anti-Islam brigade on here make, a casual viewer of this forum would think this was the main belief around here, but really it just gets so tiresome that posters with different views just can't be fucked most of the time - this is about the 3rd iteration of this same thread in about the same amount of months and it's the first time I can really be bothered to contribute anything substantial. TBH I find some of the reactionary stuff on here to be comical. Hell, even Enoch Powell would crack up at some of the end of civilisation comments on this thread. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="571987" data-time="1460544178">
<div>
<p>Actually Siam you said that that you had no confidence they could provide an unbiased view. Based on precisely nothing. And your justification for saying they would be biased... they have some crap TV shows and are commercial. </p>
<p>You bought up bias, nobody else. I can only assume you did this in some pathetic attempt to discredit the findings and the presenter... who I would suggest knows far more on this topic (from both sides) than either of us</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> See this is why it's so tiresome talking with you. And probably why others don't join in.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You expect so much clarity and evidence and explanation from others but then you just twist or lie or obfuscate what people quite reasonably offer</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I stated several times that the reason I don't want to read the article or watch the show is because it comes from a company whose sole existence relies on ratings. My opinion is not based on "precisely nothing" as you assert</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You throw around the word "pathetic" in order to solely denigrate people. You even admit that you don't know how reliable the source is. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I said I'd rather SEEK to understand why non muslims become terrorists. What's so difficult about that?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You spoil this place for others</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="571994" data-time="1460546113">
<div>
<p>Firstly, this thread is incorrectly named isn't it? Lets call a spade a spade - it's an anti Muslim/Islam thread. I bet all of us on here live in pretty successful <strong>multicultural</strong> societies.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The article you posted wasn't near as alarming as you're making out. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>4% of those surveyed said they had some sympathy with people who took part in suicide bombings, or commit terrorist acts as a from of political protest. 96% didn't have any sympathy and we don't even know why the 4% had sympathy or for what aspect of anything.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>A 1/4 said that they can understand why British girls become Jihadi brides. What the fuck does that even mean, it doesn't mean shit, it doesn't mean they favour it, it just means they think they know why - and likely they probably have no clue anyway.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Only 47% agreed that Muslims should do more to tackle extremism. So what, most Muslims are likely just getting on with their lives like the rest of us. Being from the same broad cultural group doesn't mean you know have to keep that group in line. It's like when a Maori child is killed it's always 'whats the Maori community going to do about it?", fuck off, I don't bash kids, why should I have to do something about it just because I'm Maori, I'd like to do something about it because I'm human and hate kids being abused and killed, but because I'm Maori. White males are more likely to be convicted for being pedophiles, yet all white males aren't held to account for them.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>52% think homosexuality should be illegal, bigoted pricks, but our generation lived in a time were it was illegal to be gay in NZ. Some will come around, some wont, no different than other population groups. 39% believe wives should obey their husbands, pricks again, but hardly damning, we could have an influx to NZ of Southern Baptists with similar views. 31% in favour of polygamy, weirdos - from the comments on here having one whinging wife is more than enough, but at any rate not likely to happen anytime soon. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Singapore is a multicultural country with a large number of Malay, Chinese, and Indians contributing to those education results. Also, odd that you mention nordic countries when Sweden is often one of the places mentioned as a place that's apparently lost control when this thread repeats itself under a different title every month or so. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Wouldn't most people be behind that idea? That's probably one of the least radical comments you've ever made on the Fern.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>What study are you talking about here? The one you posted in that article? They didn't really move towards disproving anything. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Furthermore, comparing Nazi ideology and Nazi Germany with Islam is not even close to apples with apples. One was an ideology that dominated a nation state, the other is a religion that is practiced in many different forms (even though you have a belief that it can only be practiced one way) throughout the world.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Has anyone actually said that? I'll quite happily criticise aspects of Islam - and Christianity too for that matter, and Judaism, etc, however I'm not going to criticise all people who follow any of those ideologies in their own way by the actions of some. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Agree with that, although I'm happy to deal with social groups (e.g. Muslim terrorists) when they're specific - as opposed to Muslims full stop. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I have no issue with the law being outlined to all new immigrants to NZ, and if they break that law then they can get locked up and/or sent back to where they came from. I don't care if they're white South African, Muslim, Chinese, British, Hindu or whatever.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>That's a cop out, there are ideologies in the West that are in conflict with freedom of speech and thought, and those people have to reconcile their beliefs with modern western society too. Also, your final comments highlight the fact that the loudest voices are the ones that get heard. There's a bunch of Muslim people who have no empathy whatsoever for extremist nutjobs, but that doesn't sell newspapers or draw in viewers. About 1of the 10 or so links on the first Google page about this poll focus on the fact that 96% of Muslim's polled have no sympathy for terrorists while the rest focus on homosexuality and sharia law. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>To illustrate the loudest noise point again, such is the noise that the anti-Islam brigade on here make, a casual viewer of this forum would think this was the main belief around here, but really it just gets so tiresome that posters with different views just can't be fucked most of the time - this is about the 3rd iteration of this same thread in about the same amount of months and it's the first time I can really be bothered to contribute anything substantial. TBH I find some of the reactionary stuff on here to be comical. Hell, even Enoch Powell would crack up at some of the end of civilisation comments on this thread. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Extremely well said Neps. It turns out I agree with you (that's not special in of itself) but I applaud the way you've articulated your views</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="571986" data-time="1460543551">
<div>
<p>"Why does it have to be one or the other? Critciser or apologist. Criticising a religion has been about as effective as praying for it to go away. I'd much rather understand why non muslims seek to become terrorists than criticise the peaceful majority among a social group"<br><br>
I have to strongly disagree with that. Religion only began to lose its very strong grip on the western world when people began to question it and openly oppose it. How is that supposed to occur with Islam when everyone freaks out at the very thought of criticising it, not to mention the utterly absurd argument that criticising Islam equates to racism.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I'd argue it wasn't so much criticism rather education, enlightenment and the realisation that alternative views exist and demonstrable methods lead to behaviour change</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It might be splitting hairs but standing and yelling "you're fucking wrong!" doesn't achieve a lot in humans. Offering evidence based alternatives is the way to affect what people believe in my opinion. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>A lot of us believed homosexuality was wrong or that black people were all theives. Criticism of our views didn't affect us as much as evidence and explanation that our ideas were flawed</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's my belief that that method altered our perceptions of colour, equality and sexuality throughout history. Wiping out ideologies or criticising or banning people/things seldom has such a positive effect</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Criticism doesn't make people think, it just makes me think that you don't understand what I'm doing or how I'm living.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Criticism divides (scoff all you want but that's my view)</p> -
Siam says: "I've been to [list of countries] and they're Sharia and they're fairly cool. So it's not necessarily Sharia."<br><br>
Baron says: "I've been to [list of countries] and they're Sharia and they're fucked up. So it's definitely Sharia and Islam by extension."<br><br>
Is that about it? -
<br><br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="571994" data-time="1460546113"><p>Firstly, this thread is incorrectly named isn't it? Lets call a spade a spade - it's an anti Muslim/Islam thread. I bet all of us on here live in pretty successful <strong>multicultural</strong> societies.<br><br>
snip<br><br>
Hell, even Enoch Powell would crack up at some of the end of civilisation comments on this thread.</p></blockquote>
<br><br>
^ Fuck I wish I said that. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Siam" data-cid="572006" data-time="1460549904">
<div>
<p><strong>I'd argue it wasn't so much criticism rather education, enlightenment and the realisation that alternative views exist and demonstrable methods lead to behaviour change</strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>It might be splitting hairs but standing and yelling "you're fucking wrong!" doesn't achieve a lot in humans. Offering evidence based alternatives is the way to affect what people believe in my opinion. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>A lot of us believed homosexuality was wrong or that black people were all theives. Criticism of our views didn't affect us as much as evidence and explanation that our ideas were flawed</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's my belief that that method altered our perceptions of colour, equality and sexuality throughout history. Wiping out ideologies or criticising or banning people/things seldom has such a positive effect</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Criticism doesn't make people think, it just makes me think that you don't understand what I'm doing or how I'm living.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Criticism divides (scoff all you want but that's my view)</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I disagree. Nothing happened until people started daring to challenge the orthodoxies around them. You could also argue that people also became more affluent and financially independent and could afford to tell the powers that be to fark off. Not seeing much sign of that in the Muslim world though.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>How do you expect what you've written to occur with Islam when even the slightest hint of criticism is slapped down as racism or bigotry? This isn't about going round harassing and insulting people, but subjecting Islam to the same level of criticism and debate that all religions in the West have to tolerate. To me that's the true test of whether Islam is compatible with Western values and society.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="572015" data-time="1460553928">
<div>
<p>I disagree. Nothing happened until people started daring to challenge the orthodoxies around them. You could also argue that people also became more affluent and financially independent and could afford to tell the powers that be to fark off. Not seeing much sign of that in the Muslim world though.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>How do you expect what you've written to occur with Islam when even the slightest hint of criticism is slapped down as racism or bigotry? This isn't about going round harassing and insulting people, but subjecting Islam to the same level of criticism and debate that all religions in the West have to tolerate. To me that's the true test of whether Islam is compatible with Western values and society.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Fair enough, I can see what you mean</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="572008" data-time="1460552142">
<div>
<p>Siam says: "I've been to [list of countries] and they're Sharia and they're fairly cool. So it's not necessarily Sharia."<br><br>
Baron says: "I've been to [list of countries] and they're Sharia and they're fucked up. So it's definitely Sharia and Islam by extension."<br><br>
Is that about it?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Also</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Siam - "I went somewhere, everyone seemed nice & I got on well with people"</p>
<p>BSG - "I went somewhere, everyone I met seemed like a fucking idiot & thought I was a fluffybunny"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I can believe both of those.</p> -
Thanks Nepia, about three times I'd started to write a post that the thread title describing the 'failure of multiculturalism' instead turns out to be almost all about Islam. But each time I ran out of energy... <br><br>
I've said before on other threads and in more detail: that Europe has done things... interestingly... across their whole migrant attraction/selection/settlement/integration space doesn't necessarily mean our policies here need wholesale changes, nor are the situations directly comparable. <br><br>
That the SunWolves are a poor rugby team doesn't mean you throw out the whole game of rugby... You can figure out how to do it better though. -
<p>Except you guys have just shown you didnt actually read the article I linked to.</p>
<p>It was a direct quote from the article form the ex Human rights and equalities commissioner in the UK he was also a left wing politician. </p>
<p>So claims it is an incorrect thread title is frankly a bit silly and just trying to deflect.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>jeez Siam has admitted he hasnt and doesnt want to even want to read the article! And yet he jumps boots and all into the thread along with others saying the thread is misnamed... it doesnt get any more clear than that.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>As for shouting down,... classic Bullshit form those wanting to close down debate. The only attempting shutting down of debate in this thread is coming from those who think that there is nothing wrong with Islam.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I think Siams assertion that it is pointless criticising Islam is grade A bullshit. It is however useful in illustrating the mindset of many in the west who would happily let a doctrine that preaches hate carry on with no criticism in the 21st century. I am guessing it makes them feel like they are somehow elnlightened?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="572023" data-time="1460576872">
<div>
<p>That the SunWolves are a poor rugby team doesn't mean you throw out the whole game of rugby... You can figure out how to do it better though.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alternatively if the Sunvolves are shite and arent getting crowds, and are generally hopeless... you exclude them from the competition. Because they are bad for the competition. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="572015" data-time="1460553928">
<div>
<p>I disagree. Nothing happened until people started daring to challenge the orthodoxies around them. You could also argue that people also became more affluent and financially independent and could afford to tell the powers that be to fark off. Not seeing much sign of that in the Muslim world though.</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>It goes further than that actually.. you dont see that happening much in the western world about Islam either (and if you do.. look at the shouting down that occurs like this thread). And that becomes an issue when mass migration occurs.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="572029" data-time="1460578670">
<div>
<p>I have read the article Baron, past experience suggests that it just takes about three seconds on TSF for European migration issues to be turned into reasons to "close the borders" in NZ.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So you read the article and saw the quote.. and still said the article was mis-titled?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And didn't you yourself say just above that NZ can learn form European experiences? So what exactly is the issue with a discussion about European experiences leading on to a ideas for NZ immigration policy?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="572031" data-time="1460578783"><p>
So you read the article and saw the quote.. and still said the article was mis-titled?<br><br>
And didn't you yourself say just above that NZ can learn form European experiences? So what exactly is the issue with a discussion about European experiences leading on to a ideas for NZ immigration policy?</p></blockquote>
This is exactly why I couldn't be bothered the first three times. The thread title jarred me, not the article, as the thread has been almost all about Islam. I'd argue that European migration policies have failed (which includes multiculturalism, but is one part of many problems with their 'failed' migration policies). You'll probably argue that I'm splitting hairs, but so be it... -
<p><span style="font-size:18px;">"<span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Austin News Text Roman', Georgia, Times, serif;">“We have ‘understood’ too much, and challenged too little – and in doing so are in danger of sacrificing a generation of young British people to values that are antithetical to the beliefs of most of us, including many Muslims.</span></span></p>
<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Austin News Text Roman', Georgia, Times, serif;"><span style="font-size:18px;">“In my view, we have to adopt a far more muscular approach to integration than ever, replacing the failed policy of multiculturalism.â€</span></p>
The Failed policy of Multiculturalism