Ukraine
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@billy-tell said in Ukraine:
@majorrage said in Ukraine:
@antipodean said in Ukraine:
Just catching up here, but it's entirely possible the Russkies are taking out some strategic targets around/ in the capital while actually invading the previously mentioned regions.
Otherwise known as tactics 101.
Exactly. And that is exactly what the coverage is showing is happening.
Yes, certain things are sketchy, but FFS, it's a war that is 5-6 hours old. You can't expect 100% coherent reporting on everything, especially when taking quotes from people on the ground in the cities. I thought the tweet Nick posted was of a typical journalist, trying to ramp up confusion and point out confusion whilst implying a basic logical load of crap.
The wise thing to do is is take the information that you've got from various sources, build a picture in your head of whats going on, then evolve it as information evolves.
Having a journalist shouting out "There's so much confusion" adds nothing, other than more fuel to the fire burning in the worlds worst invention ever, Twitter. And hence, why I was wondering why it was being posted to TSF - what was I missing.
Anyway, question for people ....
Are you glad it's Biden as president right now? Or would you prefer it was still Trump.
I'd go the latter.
Not Trump no.
Look, Putin - Russian president is a great guy and leader. Good man, very good man, okay, very smart. You know, if you’re American, if, like, ok, if I were Russian, the Russian people would say I’m one of the smartest people in the world. It’s true!
Seen to remember Trump getting a lot of praise for extracting the US from a pointless and costly war
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A few years ago Macron was calling NATO "brain-dead" and pushing for an EU defence strategy and capability.
How times have changed.
Emmanuel Macron calls for Nato summit 'as soon as possible' French President Emmanuel Macron has called for a Nato summit "as soon as possible" after Russia launched an attack on its neighbour Ukraine, his office said. "The President wishes for a Nato summit to be held as soon as possible, in coordination with our partners and allies," the presidency said, matching calls from Britain and Poland ahead of a press conference later in the day by Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg.
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@majorrage Heard Trump on the radio representing Putin’s transparent pretext, which fooled absolutely nobody, as “genius”. What an complete deadshit.
No, I’d rather have in charge a person with a fully functioning brain than either of them, I’m afraid.
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US will defend 'every inch' of Nato, but won't deploy to Ukraine
President Biden has reiterated that US forces "are not, and will not" be engaged in the conflict with Russia in Ukraine.
"Our forces are not going to Europe to fight in Ukraine, but to defend our Nato allies and reassure those allies in the east," he says. "The United States will defend every inch of Nato territory with the full force of American power."
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The West's response is insipid. If that doesn't give a green light to Putin to take all of Ukraine. nothing will.
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@victor-meldrew said in Ukraine:
A few years ago Macron was calling NATO "brain-dead" and pushing for an EU defence strategy and capability.
How times have changed.
Emmanuel Macron calls for Nato summit 'as soon as possible' French President Emmanuel Macron has called for a Nato summit "as soon as possible" after Russia launched an attack on its neighbour Ukraine, his office said. "The President wishes for a Nato summit to be held as soon as possible, in coordination with our partners and allies," the presidency said, matching calls from Britain and Poland ahead of a press conference later in the day by Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg.
NATO is the only mechanism available, though, right? I think that would be faster than "Hey guys while Putin is walking around Kyiv let's sit down and work out a new EU strategic alliance".
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@antipodean said in Ukraine:
The West's response is insipid. If that doesn't give a green light to Putin to take all of Ukraine. nothing will.
Agreed. I watched the Biden press conference this morning and felt pretty underwhelmed. He blatantly ignored questions about why they wouldn't sanction Putin personally etc. It'd be a pretty helpless feeling in Ukraine knowing that the rest of the world isn't coming to help.
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@victor-meldrew said in Ukraine:
A few years ago Macron was calling NATO "brain-dead" and pushing for an EU defence strategy and capability.
How times have changed.
Emmanuel Macron calls for Nato summit 'as soon as possible' French President Emmanuel Macron has called for a Nato summit "as soon as possible" after Russia launched an attack on its neighbour Ukraine, his office said. "The President wishes for a Nato summit to be held as soon as possible, in coordination with our partners and allies," the presidency said, matching calls from Britain and Poland ahead of a press conference later in the day by Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg.
NATO is the only mechanism available, though, right? I think that would be faster than "Hey guys while Putin is walking around Kyiv let's sit down and work out a new EU strategic alliance".
Very true. Just that Macron has spent the last few years knocking NATO &telling anyone who will listen that the way forward for European defence is via the EU.
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@majorrage Heard Trump on the radio representing Putin’s transparent pretext, which fooled absolutely nobody, as “genius”. What an complete deadshit.
No, I’d rather have in charge a person with a fully functioning brain than either of them, I’m afraid.
Maybe I got it wrong, but my understanding was the Orange One's "genius" comment was referring to the way Putin played Biden.
But he was wrong. From what I've seen, Biden would make any half-decent local council official look a genius.
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@victor-meldrew I just think Trump plays to his base, many of whom, let’s face it, couldn’t point to Russia on a map. He trots out a superficial comment that is disappointing in its banality given the access he recently had, and the faithful lap it up as evidence of his amazing insight.
The problem with people choosing leaders who are “one of us” is that most of us greatly overestimate our own abilities. If we were faced with a Putin the last person I would want in control is someone like me.
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i am loath to dip my toes in this but
how exactly is this the US's problem? Ukraine are not in NATO. The Europeans appear to have been scaling their shit back, relying on the US to bail them out.
This should be Germany/France/Italy sorting this, with support from the US. But they won't even do proper sanctions because it will cost them money.
Western Governments are "weak" here because it appears we sorta thought the modern world was above such things as "civilised" nations close to home invading each other. Wars are what happen in shitholes like Afghanistan. Most nations can send a token gesture and consider themselves part of the "alliance". And so focused on other things. Dudes like Putin are not civilised. They don't give a fuck.
It looks for all money like Ukraine will fall, and no one will do anything meaningful about it. Look out Western Poland.
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@mariner4life said in Ukraine:
i am loath to dip my toes in this but
how exactly is this the US's problem? Ukraine are not in NATO. The Europeans appear to have been scaling their shit back, relying on the US to bail them out.
This should be Germany/France/Italy sorting this, with support from the US. But they won't even do proper sanctions because it will cost them money.
Western Governments are "weak" here because it appears we sorta thought the modern world was above such things as "civilised" nations close to home invading each other. Wars are what happen in shitholes like Afghanistan. Most nations can send a token gesture and consider themselves part of the "alliance". And so focused on other things. Dudes like Putin are not civilised. They don't give a fuck.
It looks for all money like Ukraine will fall, and no one will do anything meaningful about it. Look out Western Poland.
The US are "half" of NATO. It's also the fault of Clinton (in the first instance) that expansion of NATO towards Russia exists. Those States should have been left as a default DMZ between the two as a result of the end of the Cold War. If I was a paranoid Russian and I saw NATO moving inexorably towards my borders I'd get a little tetchy too.
Germany's defence is underfunded and fat. Everyone else in Europe is pleased to see that because a fit and funded force tends to look towards France to spend their summers... They also need gas because of the ideological policy of turning off nuclear.
This was entirely predictable when they stood by and did nothing about Crimea.
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Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, voiced his anger as EU heads of state and government appeared likely to decide against blocking Russia from an international payments system through which it receives foreign currency. With casualties mounting, Kuleba warned that European and US politicians would have “blood on their hands” if they failed to impose the heaviest toll on Moscow by cutting Russia from the so-called Swift payments system. “I will not be diplomatic on this,” he tweeted. “Everyone who now doubts whether Russia should be banned from Swift has to understand that the blood of innocent Ukrainian men, women and children will be on their hands too. BAN RUSSIA FROM SWIFT.” The Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (Swift) is used by over 11,000 financial institutions to send secure payment orders and is key to the movement of funds to Russia’s oil and gas sector.
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@antipodean we can't ban Russia from that, some rich people will lose money from it
We can't ban Russia from the Olympics, some rich people will lose some money
We deserve every fucking thing we get.
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