Bastille day truck crash
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<p>Reminds me I should re-read Samuel Huntington's <em>The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order</em> if I can find it in the bookcases.</p>
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<p>[edit] snap Tim.</p> -
<p>Jeez - big read. I've got to go out so found the wiki summary:</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations'>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations</a></p>
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<p>A couple of interesting bits in that summary:</p>
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<p><em><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">Huntington argues that a "Sino-Islamic connection" is emerging in which China will cooperate more closely with </span><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran' title="Iran">Iran</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">, Pakistan, and other states to augment its international position.</span></em></p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">and</span></p>
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<p><em>3. Due to economic modernization and social change, people are separated from longstanding local identities. Instead, religion has replaced this gap, which provides a basis for identity and commitment that transcends national boundaries and unites civilizations.</em></p>
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<p>That last one is really interesting in that the concept of nationalism is fairly recent in human history, and so is basically being displaced by tribalism based along religious lines.</p>
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<p>The former statement shows that despite being "Islamic" the power brokers of countries like Iran and Pakistan are still well inside the political sphere with a country that really does't give two shits about religion, but still has an ideology with some heavy shit going down.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="599086" data-time="1469231843">
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<p>Ok... fair enough. Yet the religion that nearly all of these immigrants follows describes infidels as what? Far worse than feral. Therefore is it safe to say that Islam is 'At best lazy smartarse Ness at worst racist bigotry'?</p>
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<p>yet again you look to generalise and judge all muslims on the basis of what is written in the koran, despite it being obvious that not all muslims subscribe to that specific belief.</p>
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<p>since what you're going to say next is 'i didn't say muslims i said islam', let's deal with that in advance. you said nearly all immigrants followed islam, then you named a specific belief - so the implication is clear - nearly all immigrants think "we" are infidels and deserve to die. it's just bullshit. </p>
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<p> if you want to say the koran is racist and bigoted, go right ahead - it is.</p>
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<p>it's like taking something the absolute looniest christians do that they've taken from the bible, and pretending that all people who identify as christians do that thing. i.e. simply not true. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="599131" data-time="1469242241">
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<p>yet again you look to generalise and judge all muslims on the basis of what is written in the koran, despite it being obvious that not all muslims subscribe to that specific belief.</p>
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<p>? Don't Muslims by definition subscribe to the specific belief of Islam?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="599140" data-time="1469245359">
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<p>? Don't Muslims by definition subscribe to the specific belief of Islam?</p>
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<p>yep just like all christians believe that god created the world in a few days and dinosaurs never existed.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="599159" data-time="1469251720">
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<p>yep just like all christians believe that god created the world in a few days and dinosaurs never existed.</p>
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<p>That's not the same thing. For one I'd like to introduce the concept of subsets. It's entirely possible to be Christian and believe the Creation myth is in fact, a myth. But you can't be a Muslim and not believe in Islam.</p>
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<p>And secondly: Christians who choose to profess belief in the Old Testament over the New Testament are missing the picture; the Old Testament is a Hebrew text and Christianity is about hippy loving Jesus ala the New Testament. That's the big point of difference.</p>
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<p>Muslims adhere to the faith of Islam which has as its central tenet the Quran (an astonishing work of plagiarism from an astonishing work of plagiarism).</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="599162" data-time="1469253449"><p>
That's not the same thing. For one I'd like to introduce the concept of subsets. It's entirely possible to be Christian and believe the Creation myth is in fact, a myth. But you can't be a Muslim and not believe in Islam.<br><br>
And secondly: Christians who choose to profess belief in the Old Testament over the New Testament are missing the picture; the Old Testament is a Hebrew text and Christianity is about hippy loving Jesus ala the New Testament. That's the big point of difference.<br><br>
Muslims adhere to the faith of Islam which has as its central tenet the Quran (an astonishing work of plagiarism from an astonishing work of plagiarism).</p></blockquote>If you read reprobate's post the comment regards the idea that the Koran says death to infidels therefore all Muslims must believe it -
<p>yep, subsets was pretty much my point.</p>
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<p>this sort of thing isn't going to help:</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/us-air-strike-in-syria-kills-up-to-85-civilians-mistaken-for-isi/'>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/us-air-strike-in-syria-kills-up-to-85-civilians-mistaken-for-isi/</a></p> -
<p>Every time theres one of these attacks theres a tedious discussion about what the koran says and islam vs christianity.</p>
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<p>Personally I don't care , what we have here is terrorism carried out by Islamic terrorists often aided by local muslims in the countries they carry out their atrocities in . This whattabouttery regarding christianity is fairly irrelevant when we are seeing these attacks now on an almost weekly basis and its no coincidence they are far more common since europes governments took leave of their senses and decided to open their borders to people from a part of the world whos culture and beliefs are completely incompatible with theirs . </p> -
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="599174" data-time="1469256609"><p>Every time theres one of these attacks theres a tedious discussion about what the koran says and islam vs christianity.<br>
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Personally I don't care , what we have here is terrorism carried out by Islamic terrorists often aided by local muslims in the countries they carry out their atrocities in . This whattabouttery regarding christianity is fairly irrelevant when we are seeing these attacks now on an almost weekly basis and its no coincidence they are far more common since europes governments took leave of their senses and decided to open their borders to people from a part of the world whos culture and beliefs are completely incompatible with theirs .<br></p></blockquote>I wonder how many of the killers over the last year were immigrants? I recall many were second generation -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="599333" data-time="1469264733"><p>We can argue the toss all we like but one thing is for sure, the problem of lone wolf attacks all over the world isn't going away anytime soon</p></blockquote>
Yeah, it's almost like there's something driving a lot of these lone wolf attacks. Like they all share the same ideas or something. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="599368" data-time="1469266790"><p>Yeah, it's almost like there's something driving a lot of these lone wolf attacks. Like they all share the same ideas or something.</p></blockquote>Boom tish rinse repeat
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="599375" data-time="1469267150"><p>Boom tish rinse repeat</p></blockquote>
I'm up for one more round... -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="599174" data-time="1469256609">
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<p>Every time theres one of these attacks theres a tedious discussion about what the koran says and islam vs christianity.</p>
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<p>Personally I don't care , what we have here is terrorism carried out by Islamic terrorists often aided by local muslims in the countries they carry out their atrocities in . This whattabouttery regarding christianity is fairly irrelevant when we are seeing these attacks now on an almost weekly basis and its no coincidence they are far more common since europes governments took leave of their senses and decided to open their borders to people from a part of the world whos culture and beliefs are completely incompatible with theirs . </p>
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<p>that's because every time there is one of these attacks people say things which imply that all muslims are evil, when they're not. </p>
<p>believe me i'm as bored of it as you are, but bigotry isn't really acceptable and it makes things worse, not better.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="599174" data-time="1469256609"><p>
Every time theres one of these attacks theres a tedious discussion about what the koran says and islam vs christianity.<br><br>
Personally I don't care , what we have here is terrorism carried out by Islamic terrorists often aided by local muslims in the countries they carry out their atrocities in . This whattabouttery regarding christianity is fairly irrelevant when we are seeing these attacks now on an almost weekly basis and its no coincidence they are far more common since europes governments took leave of their senses and decided to open their borders to people from a part of the world whos culture and beliefs are completely incompatible with theirs .</p></blockquote>
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My parents often have visitors from Germany and there are 3 20 year old girls there at the moment. Met them yesterday and the conversation eventually got around to the "refugee" situation. I was expecting that they would be sympathetic to their plight, but damn I was wrong. They were scathing. Nothing idealistic here. Their town has literally been transformed into a refugee camp. Girls are advised not to go out alone and swimming pools are a particular problem. I've been there dozens of times and you'd be hard put finding a safer and more idyllic place on the planet. Most of these new arrivals are of course poorly educated young men who have no skills that can be of use to anyone. What the hell they're supposed to do is anyone's guess. They certainly aren't going anywhere. It's insane, but hey, nobody can call Merkel a racist or a bigot and that's the most important thing. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="599388" data-time="1469269546">
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<p>that's because every time there is one of these attacks people say things which imply that all muslims are evil, when they're not. </p>
<p>believe me i'm as bored of it as you are, but bigotry isn't really acceptable and it makes things worse, not better.</p>
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<p>Did anyone actually say all muslims are evil? When they do call them on it but ffs these are attacks are being carried out time and time again by muslims lets not pretend the religion isn't a factor or the fact they have north african backgrounds. The culture in north africa is completely different to ours, people like Merkel seem to believe that the minute they entered europe these people would embrace the concept of Jeffersonian democracy, the rule of law in the country they are in and their ideas about human rights. Instead we got the new years eve rapeathon which was surpressed and covered up by the government and then advice from a woman no less to dress modestly etc to avoid setting off the new arrivals. I see the Munich shooter was acting alone etc etc, I wouldn't believe anything they say about him after the way the German govt behaved in the wake of new years eve especially since a muslim witness said he was shouting Allahu akbar while he was doing the killing.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="599333" data-time="1469264733">
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<p>We can argue the toss all we like but one thing is for sure, the problem of lone wolf attacks all over the world isn't going away anytime soon</p>
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<p>Lone wolf?? FFS..... give it a rest.</p>