Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East
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@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Winger what did you expect him to say; "whatever Iran does, we're not going to intervene. That's the sort of allies we are now"?
Israel was way out of line with this attack. Biden should have just kept quiet
Esp as it seems obvious Iran doesn't want war. It did a nothing much attack to save face but gave a warning to Israel
Conducted on the strength of Article 51 of the UN Charter pertaining to legitimate defense, Iran’s military action was in response to the Zionist regime’s aggression against our diplomatic premises in Damascus. The matter can be deemed concluded. However, should the Israeli regime make another mistake, Iran’s response will be considerably more severe. It is a conflict between Iran and the rogue Israeli regime, from which the U.S. MUST STAY AWAY!
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@Winger said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Winger what did you expect him to say; "whatever Iran does, we're not going to intervene. That's the sort of allies we are now"?
Israel was way out of line with this attack. Biden should have just kept quiet
Esp as it seems obvious Iran doesn't want war.
LOL. The same Iran funding Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. wants peace.
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@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Winger said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Winger what did you expect him to say; "whatever Iran does, we're not going to intervene. That's the sort of allies we are now"?
Israel was way out of line with this attack. Biden should have just kept quiet
Esp as it seems obvious Iran doesn't want war.
LOL. The same Iran funding Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. wants peace.
Yep, it's pretty dumb to to argue Iran doesn't want war with Israel considering for years Iranian leaders have openly and consistently called for Israel's destruction.
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@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Winger said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
've read a school of thought that any war would create huge dissent in Iran
Where did you read this? As I doubt this would be the case after Israel bombed the Embassy
The majority of Persians hate the Islamic Republic.
Am well on board.
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@Kirwan said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
The embassy that was bombed also had people that were organising the attacks on northern Israel, so a legitimate target.
Is this yet another justification by Israel?
We may as well throw the rulebook out the window. If it only applies to one side.
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@Kirwan said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Iran have had line items in their budget for decades supporting terrorists, they don’t even hide it.
and this. Depending on whose side one is on. I try to see both viewpoints. Otherwise WW3. Where both sides will think they are fighting evil
Since the Iranian Revolution in 1979, the government of the Islamic Republic of Iran has been accused by several countries of training, financing, and providing weapons and safe havens for non-state militant actors, such as Hezbollah in Lebanon, Hamas in Gaza, and other Palestinian groups such as the Islamic Jihad (IJ) and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). These groups are designated terrorist groups by a number of countries and international bodies such as the EU, UN, and NATO; however, Iran considers such groups to be "national liberation movements" with a right to self-defense against Israeli military occupation.[1]
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Saw a good thread on Twitter yesterday, can't find it now, suggesting that the middle east is a constant shouting match where everyone is constantly needing to project enough power and strength not to be invaded so its a game of hitting each other with a stick, going to get a bigger stick, constantly balancing whether the stick you've used isn't big enough to force the other guy to go and get a gun.
Israel hits the embassy (reasonable size stick), Iran replies with missiles (slightly bigger stick) it knows will be shot down, does enough damage to claim a victory to its own people, both sides indicate they consider it to be the end of the process etc (i.e. no one is going to get a gun). At this point, hopefully its just hitting each other with sticks but no question its on a bit of a knife edge.
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I doubt Israel cares about the "PR war" and nor should they.
To suggest Hamas is winning is so objectionably laughable compared to the facts on the ground it's little more than gas lighting propaganda.
It's like losing the game 50-0 on the weekend, but claiming the moral victory because you gave a better after match speech in the clubrooms afterwards...
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@Windows97 said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
And like I said, they don't care, nor should they care about the PR war...
They don't seem to care but they should. As this last 6 months has been a total disaster for Israel (and the West) on the PR front. I believe Israel got far too cocky. They thought the corrupt Western media and politicians could protect them. It hasn't worked. The reverse. It simply exposed the media and politicians for what they are. I think these groups are finally waking up to this. But it's too late.
And surely you realise how important image and PR are. Russia, China and Iran etc, seem to as they have sat back and watched the West shot themselves time and time again in the foot. All they need to do is to not react. As they have done so far.
Edit. Except for Iran sending slow drones (as a warning and to save face) and allowing Israel etc to shot them all down.
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@Windows97 said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
To suggest Hamas is winning is so objectionably laughable compared to the facts on the ground it's little more than gas lighting propaganda.
Countries want to be perceived as being on the side of good. Even when they clearly aren't. Totally lose the good guys (or victim) image and it's hard to recover from it. This is the position Israel and the West are now in.
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I'm sorry I'm just finding all this talk about Hamas "winning" the PR war to be somewhat devoid of reality.
I doubt the "PR war" is going to build back all their tunnels, rebild the infrastructure, replace all the soldiers lost or captured or miracilously bring anyone back to life...
What exact PR are they winning over? Almost all the Arab nations have deserted them. Egypt has welded their borders shut to Palestine - their only help has come from Iran to which Jordan and Saudi Arabia both joined in on the side of Israel to defend (an Arab nation defending Israel would have been unimaginable 10 years ago).
Hamas is losing support of the Arab states in the middle east and getting beaten up on the ground in Gaza. Sympathy from the West aint going to achieve anything at all.
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Add to that Iran's drone and missile strike has helped stem the loss of support for Israel's actions, highlighting again the continuous precariousness of its existence. Hardly a PR win there I would have thought.
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@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Add to that Iran's drone and missile strike has helped stem the loss of support for Israel's actions,
Surely most see for this for what it was. Retaliation but no more than a face-saving exercise and aslo a warning
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@Windows97 said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I doubt the "PR war" is going to build back all their tunnels, rebild the infrastructure, replace all the soldiers lost or captured or miracilously bring anyone back to life...
Depends if you just look at the short term or long term
Palestinians are currently living in an open-air prison. With few rights or remedies. They might be fighting for a decent future existence and are willing to suffer in the short term
To achieve this, they must win the PR battle
The report finds that since 1967, over 800,000 Palestinians, including children as young as 12, have been arrested and detained under authoritarian rules enacted, enforced and adjudicated by the Israeli military. Palestinians are subject to long detention for expressing opinions, gathering, pronouncing unauthorised political speeches, or even merely attempting to do so, and ultimately deprived of their status of protected civilians. They are often presumed guilty without evidence, arrested without warrants, detained without charge or trial and brutalised in Israeli custody.
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@Winger said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@antipodean said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Add to that Iran's drone and missile strike has helped stem the loss of support for Israel's actions,
Surely most see for this for what it was. Retaliation but no more than a face-saving exercise and aslo a warning
How do you save face or send a warning if it's so easily defeated?
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@Winger Palestine has their own land, their own country, their own rights and own government. They have recived more aid $$ than any other entitiy in the modern world.
Estimates are they have recived $40 billion from 1994 to 2020.
If it's an open air prison it's because Hamas has made it that way.
The only opression that Palestine suffers is that Isreal exists.