AB squad for the EOYT



  • Who of the current squad will not make it ?
    Who outside the current squad will make it ?
    IMO :
    Out = Tamanivalu, maybe Dixon, Coltman, Todd
    In = Ioane Bros, maybe Luatua, Nanai, Elliott
    Cruden being likely to sign with Montpellier, will Hansen and Co opt for McKenzie as the third 1st Five eight ?



  • Re Cruden have we done this -

    http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/a-future-at-no-9-for-all-blacks-mckenzie-20161008?isapp=true

    New Zealand head coach Steve Hansen has revealed that the prospect of Damian McKenzie playing scrumhalf isn't out of the question. McKenzie, who impressed for the Chiefs at fullback in Super Rugby this year, made his international bow against Argentina last weekend. He hasn't been included in the match-day 23 against South Africa, however, with Hansen saying he is considering all options with McKenzie.

    "Look I'd like to see him play 10 before he starts playing nine," Hansen told TVNZ ahead of the Rugby Championship match in Durban as New Zealand look to make it 17 straight wins. "If he gets that part of his job right then we might think about playing him at nine." Hansen admitted that McKenzie has been familiarising himself with the scrumhalf role in training in what would be an interesting switch.

    So it would be a straight swap - a midget 10 who Hansen thinks could play 9, for a midget 10 Hansen thinks could play 9.

    I think the big open door will be the backup to Kaino, Squire looks a good impact 6, but doesn't do the Kaino role starting. I thought Dixon mioght, but nope. So a solid "tight" 6 is still on the shopping list

    Reiko could go as a project maybe... but its hard to see how he gets in as a normal pick with Crotty, ALB, Dagg, Smith, Naholo, J Savea, Moala all nailed on. And Fekitoa maybe in that group too...



  • @gollum
    Yes, you're right but the game against Italy would be perfect to try a few new names ...



  • @cgrant said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    @gollum
    Yes, you're right but the game against Italy would be perfect to try a few new names ...

    But what would it prove? e.g. Reiko has a run and scores a hat trick behind a dominant pack

    The AB selectors bring guys in more to see how they act in camp, check their work ethic and ability to absorb information. Also to give them a taste of what it takes to be an AB in this setup.

    I could see DMac being given a run at 10 for a half against Italy though just to watch his game temperament and decision making.



  • @gollum I always thought cruden could have been groomed a halfback. I think he would have been fantastic. So similar thinking with mckenzie. Just too small for international rugby at fb or 1st five.



  • I think the best thing that could happen to McKenzie , he got game time at 10 at super rugby level



  • Current team could miss out IMO = Elliot Dixon, Damian McKenzie, Seta Tamanivalu

    They will definitely want to develop some more propping options IMO, with Crockett not getting younger, Faumuina uncertain to stay, and Owen Franks not yet re-signed.

    Then there is still the issue of a long-term replacement for Kaino, obviously Squire has made giant strides, but Ioane or another shot for Luatua might be threats to Elliot's spot. I have read that Luke Whitelock has been playing well too, but don't really watch the NPC.

    Aside from R. Ioane, I'm not too sure about the backs.

    In any case, I think there is room for maybe 4 new faces.



  • Hansen indicated yesterday there could be 2 from outside the current squad, Reiko would be one I expect, unsure on the other.



  • I don't think Dixon will be discarded. He's had one start and a few minutes from the bench.
    Not enough of a sample size to say he's not capable of filling Kainos rather large boots IMO.



  • @taniwharugby said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    Hansen indicated yesterday there could be 2 from outside the current squad, Reiko would be one I expect, unsure on the other.

    I wonder whether Reg Goodes will be considered, esp as long as Brendon Edmonds is out.
    It won't happen, but I'd like them to take Riccitelli (as an apprentice), too.



  • By my reckoning, if one assumes Todd drops out for Cane, there are 34 ABs in the squad at present, including Seta T. Hansen has apparently said they're taking 36 -- so two newbies before any replacements. Rieko Ioane must be likely, possibly at expense of Seta. Of the six extras who attended the Auckland camp, ALB, DMac, Seta and Todd are already in the extended squad. The remaining two are Luataua and Nanai, both of whom could feature. Am assuming Coltman is the preferred third hooker. If another prop is taken Hames could have inside running after debut. However, tighthead would be the most useful area to blood someone -- no idea if there are any comers in NPC! Suspect locks are taken care of -- the clamour for Bird seems to have trailed off. In loosies, I expect they won't take Dixon and Todd -- so one of these will be unlucky. Probably room to take one extra on tour -- so it appears the choice could be two of Dixon/Todd/Luatua/Akira Ioane.
    Have I missed someone who has clearly put his hand up?



  • @pakman said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    Am assuming Coltman is the preferred third hooker

    I'm not sure.

    Normally they take 6 props when they go to SA, this year they took 5. I think Coltmans utility value was useful if there was two props injured on tour

    For the EOYT they'll have 6 props again and I wouldn't be surprised to see Parsons back if fit



  • @taniwharugby and others.

    Pedant alert!

    Rieko Ioane.

    Reiko is a straight up girls name.



  • Correct, you are a pedant 🙂



  • @gt12 maybe I did it to deliberately wind you up?



  • @pakman said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    By my reckoning, if one assumes Todd drops out for Cane, there are 34 ABs in the squad at present, including Seta T. Hansen has apparently said they're taking 36 -- so two newbies before any replacements. Rieko Ioane must be likely, possibly at expense of Seta. Of the six extras who attended the Auckland camp, ALB, DMac, Seta and Todd are already in the extended squad. The remaining two are Luataua and Nanai, both of whom could feature. Am assuming Coltman is the preferred third hooker. If another prop is taken Hames could have inside running after debut. However, tighthead would be the most useful area to blood someone -- no idea if there are any comers in NPC! Suspect locks are taken care of -- the clamour for Bird seems to have trailed off. In loosies, I expect they won't take Dixon and Todd -- so one of these will be unlucky. Probably room to take one extra on tour -- so it appears the choice could be two of Dixon/Todd/Luatua/Akira Ioane.
    Have I missed someone who has clearly put his hand up?

    Atu Moli



  • i personally wouldn't bother with either ioane yet. we have strong depth in the loose - including guys like luatua and dixon, who have played better than akira in super rugby, but who haven't been given a decent crack at the higher level yet.
    rieko/reiko maybe, but given ALB has gone from injury call up to definite, i reckon that is his spot gone.



  • @reprobate said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    rieko/reiko maybe, but given ALB has gone from injury call up to definite, i reckon that is his spot gone.

    He should be selected as a winger



  • @pakman Good analysis. I have 32 guys in the current squad plus Cane and Cruden minus Todd (he seems no certainty, so I have minused him initially). So there are 33 players locked in and three to be added.

    I think they will take six props, and the sixth will be Hames, a LH, as they clearly prefer Tu'ungafasi as a TH currently. Crockett is the oldest All Black in the current squad and is potentially doubtful for RWC 2019 (though he mused recently that he currently felt fit enough to get there. Also, he and Moody share gametime all season long so he is not heavily raced during the season).

    Ditto they need to find Kaino's successor, as a few have stated above. It seems Dixon, Squire, Luatua and maybe A. Ioane are still the candidates (also as 8 cover). It would be very tough on Dixon to axe him given he's played five minutes of test rugby in the RC. I think they'll take Matt Todd on the EOYT, and he'll start against Italy and France (Ardie on the bench for all four games) and keep Cane's workload down. That means no room for another 6/8 after Dixon and Squire. There's a huge logjam of talent there which is bad luck for some.

    I don't think they will take any extra midfielders, given that SBW and (hopefully) Ngatai are back next year.

    My 36th guy will be an outside back (even though NMS will be back next year), probably R. Ioane with Melani Nanai an outside chance.



  • Todd will only go if there is an injury cloud over Cane.

    For me Dixon goes because they probably see him as that emergency 7 option that also plays 6 and 8.

    I'd be pretty surprised if Squire doesn't go. Not only that I think he will feature quite a bit.

    I know there's many keen to get Akira in there, but for what role?

    I do like the prospect of his brother on the wing though. I don't think he's a natural midfielder and he's yet to develop into one.

    What's the go with the locks. Tuipoluto and Romano were sparingly used but are both highly regarded by the selectors. Neither have the engines of the top two, but I'm not sure if there are any other locks running around that would be better than PT and LR at this point.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    Todd will only go if there is an injury cloud over Cane.

    For me Dixon goes because they probably see him as that emergency 7 option that also plays 6 and 8.

    I'd be pretty surprised if Squire doesn't go. Not only that I think he will feature quite a bit.

    I know there's many keen to get Akira in there, but for what role?

    I do like the prospect of his brother on the wing though. I don't think he's a natural midfielder and he's yet to develop into one.

    What's the go with the locks. Tuipoluto and Romano were sparingly used but are both highly regarded by the selectors. Neither have the engines of the top two, but I'm not sure if there are any other locks running around that would be better than PT and LR at this point.

    Dominic Bird has been massive all year, both for the Chiefs and Canterbury. I don't really get why he wasn't in the squad in the first place, but I doubt this will be one of the few changes they'll make for the EOYT.



  • @Stargazer said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    @ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    Todd will only go if there is an injury cloud over Cane.

    For me Dixon goes because they probably see him as that emergency 7 option that also plays 6 and 8.

    I'd be pretty surprised if Squire doesn't go. Not only that I think he will feature quite a bit.

    I know there's many keen to get Akira in there, but for what role?

    I do like the prospect of his brother on the wing though. I don't think he's a natural midfielder and he's yet to develop into one.

    What's the go with the locks. Tuipoluto and Romano were sparingly used but are both highly regarded by the selectors. Neither have the engines of the top two, but I'm not sure if there are any other locks running around that would be better than PT and LR at this point.

    Dominic Bird has been massive all year, both for the Chiefs and Canterbury. I don't really get why he wasn't in the squad in the first place, but I doubt this will be one of the few changes they'll make for the EOYT.

    well who would he replace? The coaches seem to really like Romano, PT is a player on the up, so am guessing just unlucky to be sitting behind them, who are stuck behind Whitelock and BBBR...plus he should be behind any Hurricane lock as they deserve a quota according to Winger.



  • @taniwharugby

    It worked, dammit.

    @reprobate is on my list now too, and @Hooroo for being a smartass.



  • @taniwharugby I'd say it would have to be PT as he's no from Canterbury.



  • @Bones said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    @taniwharugby I'd say it would have to be PT as he's no from Canterbury.

    Exactly



  • My bolter is Jordie Barrett. Covers 10/12/15/wing/lock.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    My bolter is Jordie Barrett. Covers 10/12/15/wing/lock.

    Select him for the EOYT. Then never again after he starts playing for the canes. Watch winger go postal.



  • @reprobate Rieko might yet go as an apprentice like Ardie did a few years back, but he's a better chance than his brother due to the competition at loose forward.

    I think Todd is the only player from Arg/SA squad that misses out as he is an injury replacement for Cane.

    Hames as the 6th prop.



  • @ACT-Crusader said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    Todd will only go if there is an injury cloud over Cane.

    For me Dixon goes because they probably see him as that emergency 7 option that also plays 6 and 8.

    I'd be pretty surprised if Squire doesn't go. Not only that I think he will feature quite a bit.

    I know there's many keen to get Akira in there, but for what role?

    I do like the prospect of his brother on the wing though. I don't think he's a natural midfielder and he's yet to develop into one.

    What's the go with the locks. Tuipoluto and Romano were sparingly used but are both highly regarded by the selectors. Neither have the engines of the top two, but I'm not sure if there are any other locks running around that would be better than PT and LR at this point.

    Are they taking any development type players who wont feature in games ?

    I remember they did

    Yeah I think with Akira, it would depend on whether they see him as a future player that isnt going to get alot of game time now, but is worth putting some time into now for development , for later

    I remember a couple of years back, they took away Ardie , who didnt feature again for a while.



  • @Stargazer Dom Bird either starts or doesn't play at all as he wouldn't bring anything near what Pat or even Romano would bring off the bench and he's nowhere near a starting spot so yeah he'll have to wait for an injury or 10 before being considered.



  • @kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the EOYT:
    id

    Yeah I think with Akira, it would depend on whether they see him as a future player that isnt going to get alot of game time now, but is worth putting some time into now for development , for later

    I remember a couple of years back, they took away Ardie , who didnt feature again for a while.

    I think Akira is too old & has played too much Super to be a development pick, Rieko could go the way Ardie did, but if Akira goes he has to be a main pick



  • @gollum said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    @kiwiinmelb said in AB squad for the EOYT:
    id

    Yeah I think with Akira, it would depend on whether they see him as a future player that isnt going to get alot of game time now, but is worth putting some time into now for development , for later

    I remember a couple of years back, they took away Ardie , who didnt feature again for a while.

    I think Akira is too old & has played too much Super to be a development pick, Rieko could go the way Ardie did, but if Akira goes he has to be a main pick

    Fair call , I think Ardie went after his first super rugby season and Akira has now played 2 seasons



  • As someone mentioned, what about Riccitelli as an apprentice? Coles and Parsons are 33 come the next RWC (highly doubt Parsons will be in the mix at that point) Codie Taylor just isn't as good as Coles and Harris is plagued by injury. Riccitelli seems to have good traits, good pace, physical in contact, could progress in to a great modern hooker.



  • I wouldn't bother taking Todd if Cane is right to play.
    I think Akira Ioane needs to prove that he can play at a high level without failing the dickhead test by trying to start fights etc before being considered for higher honours. Especially when there is Luatua who is missing out.
    Dixon should go because he has hardly had a chance. He will surely slot into 8 when/if Read has a rest.
    Squire goes for me because he has played well and is the best backup for the Kaino role.
    Don't think Bird will have moved past any of the locks and Hames is probably the next Prop of they are taking another.
    Hooker they will probably go with Coltman or Parsons but time in the camp and a few minutes off the bench might help Riccatelli along. They may wait and see if he backs it up next year first though.

    Backs I would leave Seta at home. ALB has impressed, Moala needs some game time to show what he has got and Fekitoa has been around for a while so will get more chances. I would take R. Ioane as a right winger. B Smith and Dagg will be sharing 15 i would think so we will probably see a new 14 at some point. I guess giving Dmac time at 15 might reduce that need but i think Rieko would be worth a shot or Nanai for that matter.

    Don't know where that leaves me for numbers but Im sure Hansen will work it out from my notes.



  • Yeah, can't see Todd going if Cane is fit. Dixon and Read to a degree are fine to cover openside up north should injury befall Ardie or Cane (and then Todd can be on a plane if it's early on).



  • @Sapetyvi said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    As someone mentioned, what about Riccitelli as an apprentice? Coles and Parsons are 33 come the next RWC (highly doubt Parsons will be in the mix at that point) Codie Taylor just isn't as good as Coles and Harris is plagued by injury. Riccitelli seems to have good traits, good pace, physical in contact, could progress in to a great modern hooker.

    Codie Taylor is on 25 so has plenty of time on his side to develop. I think they like his physicality, workrate and edge, just some of the other things of playing out wide that Coles does well to work on.



  • See the media have run stories without saying much: Rieko seems a probable. Third hooker would seem likely to be Coltman or Parsons. Is there a sixth prop -- probably a LH?
    But other than Rieko has anyone in particular put their hands up?
    If not, we are left with the Todd/Nanai/Luatua extended squadee. And if one or more of these goes, who is left out?
    Hard to see that there's going to be a bolter.



  • With the talent bubbling under the surface, the relative ease of opposition and with a view to the Lions Tour and next RWC (not nearly as many new caps blooded this year as 2012) it wouldn't be a horrible time to leave a couple of campaigners at home if to do nothing but create space in match day 22's for the young guys.

    But when you go down each candidate there aren't any perfect candidates.

    Dagg already lost his spot and wouldn't give it up and had a good spell last year.
    Kaino already had a spell a few years back and would be hesitant to give others a crack.
    Read's first tour away as skip.
    Coles probably needs the spell more than anyone but he is of a different vintage than those above - so less need to prepare for the future there.

    Ben Smith would be perhaps the most ideal candidate. Big workload this year, big workload the past 4 years without a break - but who wants to pick a team without Bender? Also VC.

    Whitelock, Franks and Rettalick could do with a spell too - but that's one area where we don't have a bevvy of young options to try - just Patty T. So you can take them all but perhaps have them coming off the bench more than usual.



  • @rotated Bird? Luatua too, I guess, as he can cover lock.

    Though aside from when players go on sabbatical or are injured, when was the last time anyone was rested from the EOYT anyway? Marshall way back in 2004? I can't see them doing it now, at most they'll give the starters a one game rest.



  • @Unco said in AB squad for the EOYT:

    @rotated Bird? Luatua too, I guess, as he can cover lock.

    Though aside from when players go on sabbatical or are injured, when was the last time anyone was rested from the EOYT anyway? Marshall way back in 2004? I can't see them doing it now, at most they'll give the starters a one game rest.

    Agree, and that's usually the "easiest" test. So that would be Italy.

    I also wonder what impact the simultaneous presence in Europe of the Maori All Blacks and many Kiwis in the Baabaas squad will have on the size and composition of the All Blacks squad, if any.


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