NZ Form XV after round 6



  • 15 : Jordie Barrett
    (Ben Smith is far from his usual self while Israel Dagg is injured)
    14 : Matt Duffie
    (He is playing better and better. Worth an AB call for the EOYT ?)
    13 : Matt Proctor
    (Rieko Ioane did very well during the first rounds but has faded a bit since)
    12 : Ryan Crotty / George Moala
    (Two very different players who have done very well, Moala with some barnstorming runs, Crotty with his clever distribution)
    11 : Melani Nanai
    (Julian Savea is just bubbling under. He has been impressive but Nanai has been brillant)
    10 : Beauden Barrett
    (Cruden ?)
    9 : TKB / TJP
    (I could not make a choice between the two. Both are currently outstanding)
    8 : Luke Whitelock
    (by default)
    7 : Ardie Savea
    (Gibson has done very well too)
    6 : Jordan Taufua
    (will he get a call by Hansen ?)
    5 : Sam Whitelock
    (Bird not far behind)
    4 : Brodie Retallick
    (Tuipolutu and Romano also in good form)
    3 : Owen Franks
    (JTA has improved his scrummaging a lot. I would like to see him get a call as the fifth prop for the squad)
    2 : Liam Coltman
    (Hard and strong. His throwing has to be improved nonetheless)
    1 : Kane Hames
    (very strong scrummager and good workrate)



  • 15 : D Mac
    14 : Vince Aso
    13 : Matt Proctor
    12 : Laumape
    11 : Julian Savea
    10 : Beauden Barrett
    9 : TKB (Beats out TJP because he outplayed him and TJPs game was a big factor in the loss between the two)
    8 : Ardie Surveyor
    7 : Sam Cane (could also go Ardie 7 and Douglas 8 but Cane kept Ardie quiet in their match up and Ardie has been great at 8 )
    6 : Jordan Taufua
    5 : Sam Whitelock
    4 : Brodie Retallick
    3 : Owen Franks
    2 : Hika Elliott (best on lineout throwing, strongest scrummager)
    1 : Kane Hames



  • 15 Jordie Barrett
    14 Vince Aso
    13 Richard Buckman
    12 Ryan Crotty
    11 Julian Savea
    10 Beauden Barrett
    9 TJ Perenara
    8 Ardie Savea
    7 Matt Todd
    6 Jordan Taufua
    5 Sam Whitelock
    4 Brodie Retallick
    3 Owen Franks
    2 Hika Elliott
    1 Wyatt Crockett

    Adding the bench:
    16 Codie Taylor, 17. Kane Hames, 18. Charlie Faumuina, 19. Scott Barrett, 20. Whetu Douglas, 21. TKB, 22. Mitchell Hunt, 23. Dmac

    I'd be thrilled to see a Crotty/Buckman midfield; it would be lethal.



  • @cgrant said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    15 : Jordie Barrett
    (Ben Smith is far from his usual self while Israel Dagg is injured)
    14 : Matt Duffie
    (He is playing better and better. Worth an AB call for the EOYT ?)
    13 : Matt Proctor
    (Rieko Ioane did very well during the first rounds but has faded a bit since)
    12 : Ryan Crotty / George Moala
    (Two very different players who have done very well, Moala with some barnstorming runs, Crotty with his clever distribution)
    11 : Melani Nanai
    (Julian Savea is just bubbling under. He has been impressive but Nanai has been brillant)
    10 : Beauden Barrett
    (Cruden ?)
    9 : TKB / TJP
    (I could not make a choice between the two. Both are currently outstanding)
    8 : Luke Whitelock
    (by default)
    7 : Ardie Savea
    (Gibson has done very well too)
    6 : Jordan Taufua
    (will he get a call by Hansen ?)
    5 : Sam Whitelock
    (Bird not far behind)
    4 : Brodie Retallick
    (Tuipolutu and Romano also in good form)
    3 : Owen Franks
    (JTA has improved his scrummaging a lot. I would like to see him get a call as the fifth prop for the squad)
    2 : Liam Coltman
    (Hard and strong. His throwing has to be improved nonetheless)
    1 : Kane Hames
    (very strong scrummager and good workrate)

    Luke Whitelock when Savea has been tearing it up lately?

    Your Dad joke cred would have been better if you'd said 'Bird not far down the pecking order' instead.



  • I don't think a blindside can be considered in good form if he's tackling at an abysmal 79%. He's in brilliant running form though

    Shields is a better pick. He's been involved in more parts of the game and doesn't have a part of the game where he has gone missing. Even his hands have been good this year



  • @MN5 said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @cgrant said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    15 : Jordie Barrett
    (Ben Smith is far from his usual self while Israel Dagg is injured)
    14 : Matt Duffie
    (He is playing better and better. Worth an AB call for the EOYT ?)
    13 : Matt Proctor
    (Rieko Ioane did very well during the first rounds but has faded a bit since)
    12 : Ryan Crotty / George Moala
    (Two very different players who have done very well, Moala with some barnstorming runs, Crotty with his clever distribution)
    11 : Melani Nanai
    (Julian Savea is just bubbling under. He has been impressive but Nanai has been brillant)
    10 : Beauden Barrett
    (Cruden ?)
    9 : TKB / TJP
    (I could not make a choice between the two. Both are currently outstanding)
    8 : Luke Whitelock
    (by default)
    7 : Ardie Savea
    (Gibson has done very well too)
    6 : Jordan Taufua
    (will he get a call by Hansen ?)
    5 : Sam Whitelock
    (Bird not far behind)
    4 : Brodie Retallick
    (Tuipolutu and Romano also in good form)
    3 : Owen Franks
    (JTA has improved his scrummaging a lot. I would like to see him get a call as the fifth prop for the squad)
    2 : Liam Coltman
    (Hard and strong. His throwing has to be improved nonetheless)
    1 : Kane Hames
    (very strong scrummager and good workrate)

    Luke Whitelock when Savea has been tearing it up lately?

    Your Dad joke cred would have been better if you'd said 'Bird not far down the pecking order' instead.

    thats a pretty cheep joke.



  • 15 Damian McKenzie
    14 Vince Aso
    13 Matt Proctor
    12 George Moala
    11 Julian Savea
    10 Aaron Cruden
    9 Tawera Kerr Barlow
    8 Ardie Savea
    7 Matt Todd
    6 Liam Messam
    5 Sam Whitelock
    4 Brodie Retallick
    3 Owen Franks
    2 Hika Elliot
    1 Joe Moody



  • @Cantab79

    It's the dot after the number causing the issue. The software sees that as an ordered list and increments

    I'll remove them



  • @Duluth

    Thank you



  • I don't think Jordan Taufua can even be in the discussion, and I'm a Crusaders fan. When Read returns, I'd like to see Whetu Douglas switch to the Blindside and Taufua relegated to the bench. In my opinion Douglas has been the find of the season.



  • No love for Kaino, who has been in great form?



  • @mariner4life

    He's been playing mostly at no.8 hasn't he? But I agree he has been strong so far this year.



  • There are more AB-competent players than spots available. Hansen is going to have his work cut out giving people bad news.

    The EOYT will be very interesting: for the Lions it will tried and tested, but after that it will be operation RWC 2019, and looking to replace some of the ageing stalwarts such as Crockett and Kaino, not to mention those departing such as Cruden, TKB and Faumuina.

    IMO, the single most pressing area of concern is to find a replacement for Kaino: it's not Dixon anyway, and I think Squire is more of an 8/bench utility.

    Lots of midfield options all of a sudden too, although outside Crotty and SBW not too many caps.



  • 15 J. Barrett
    14 Aso
    13 Proctor
    12 Crotty
    11 Savea
    10 B. Barrett
    9 Perenara
    8 Kaino
    7 Todd
    6 Shields
    5 S. Whitelock
    4 Retallick
    3 Franks
    2 Elliott
    1 Moody

    16 Taylor 17 Crockett 18 Faumuina 19 Bird 20 Taufua 21 Kerr-Barlow 22 D. McKenzie 23 Buckman



  • @Billy-Tell said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    There are more AB-competent players than spots available. Hansen is going to have his work cut out giving people bad news.

    The EOYT will be very interesting: for the Lions it will tried and tested, but after that it will be operation RWC 2019, and looking to replace some of the ageing stalwarts such as Crockett and Kaino, not to mention those departing such as Cruden, TKB and Faumuina.

    IMO, the single most pressing area of concern is to find a replacement for Kaino: it's not Dixon anyway, and I think Squire is more of an 8/bench utility.

    Lots of midfield options all of a sudden too, although outside Crotty and SBW not too many caps.

    I wonder if the replacement for Kaino is currently playing as a lock. We need a really strong, physical player and someone like Patrick Tuipulotu or Vaea Fifita could make the switch to blindside flanker?



  • @Cantab79 not an outlandish idea, especially given Kaino is also a big lineout target for us



  • Scott Barrett could be a good Nr.6 if he's given more time to settle there.



  • Yeah i don't think Tuipulotu could be considered - i think people underestimate just how quick Kaino is. Fifita or Barrett well worth a look, although I'd like to see Barrett get a bit more staunch on defence.



  • @mariner4life Kaino isn't used much in the lineout for the ABs, certainly not as often as he could be for someone his height. Read and Whitelock are the main targets with BBBR as the third option.

    I think our next long-term no.6 might be currently playing at 7 - Cane. A bit like Michael Jones' transition.

    Squire is probably the player they see as the backup blindside flanker at the moment but he still has plenty of work to do.



  • @Bovidae yeah Cane is a good call. He's the most Kaino like player i can think of.



  • Cane, Read, Surveyor?

    Could be worth a crack although I do also wonder if it weakens the lineout by lessening the possible targets for the opposition to watch.

    Given that Ardie is 6'10" shouldn't he be more proficient in the lineout?



  • @Bones He certainly hits like he's 10 kilos heavier.



  • @Crucial said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    Cane, Read, Surveyor?

    Could be worth a crack although I do also wonder if it weakens the lineout by lessening the possible targets for the opposition to watch.

    Given that Ardie is 6'10" shouldn't he be more proficient in the lineout?

    The joke that never gets old



  • @Crucial Either Cane or Surveyor could be used as a jumper, particularly if using the locks as lifters (ala the Chiefs).

    Remember McCaw was often used as a lineout target, as was Messam at the front, and both were secure enough. They are all of a similar height (minus the haircut of course).



  • So, um, has Liam Messam retired from the ABs while still being a Chief or what?



  • @MN5 Still available for selection.



  • @Bovidae said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @MN5 Still available for selection.

    Ah ok but not in the frame ?



  • @MN5 said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @Bovidae said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @MN5 Still available for selection.

    Ah ok but not in the frame ?

    We'll see come selection time. He was off playing in Japan and then Sevens last year, so wasn't available for selection.



  • I think I read an interview where he said he would love to play in black again but his focus was on playing well for the Chiefs. Anything that came from that was a bonus.
    In other words he is not going out there with impressing the AB selectors in mind.



  • @Crucial said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    I think I read an interview where he said he would love to play in black again but his focus was on playing well for the Chiefs. Anything that came from that was a bonus.
    In other words he is not going out there with impressing the AB selectors in mind.

    Sounds like Rugby cliches 101 to me. I bet he's taking each game as it comes too.



  • @MN5 said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @Crucial said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    I think I read an interview where he said he would love to play in black again but his focus was on playing well for the Chiefs. Anything that came from that was a bonus.
    In other words he is not going out there with impressing the AB selectors in mind.

    Sounds like Rugby cliches 101 to me. I bet he's taking each game as it comes too.

    |t will be a season of two halves.



  • @Bovidae said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @Crucial Either Cane or Surveyor could be used as a jumper, particularly if using the locks as lifters (ala the Chiefs).

    Less the jumper that would be the issue, more the lifter. You need a primary lifter for each jumper. Kaino is a big lifter, so you swap him for a smaller guy who is not as strong you might not see it in Kainos lineout stats, but you'll see it in Whitelocks or Reads.



  • Back to Messam. It seems a given that SBW is gonna waltz back into the ABs despite as yet not making a Super Rugby appearance. LM has at least played this year yet he's not an auto pick like SBW?



  • Messam had lost his place since before the World Cup and barely made the squad though.



  • @Milk said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    Messam had lost his place since before the World Cup and barely made the squad though.

    He's great as a "badass mother who don't take no crap off of nobody" waterboy though.



  • @No-Quarter If Julian gets in trouble again Messam has his back.

    I certainly wouldn't rule out Messam in the AB squad as the backup to Kaino. He would be a good shout to captain the Maori otherwise.



  • @Bovidae said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @No-Quarter If Julian gets in trouble again Messam has his back.

    I certainly wouldn't rule out Messam in the AB squad as the backup to Kaino. He would be a good shout to captain the Maori otherwise.

    I'm a big fan of Liam "could've been a great centre" Messam, and thought we didn't miss a beat when he started during the Kaino sabbatical, but I think his chances are very slim. I think they will continue to develop Squire and Dixon.

    I do like the idea of him captaining the Maori in another famous victory against the Lions 🙂



  • @ACT-Crusader said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @Bovidae said in NZ Form XV after round 6:

    @No-Quarter If Julian gets in trouble again Messam has his back.

    I certainly wouldn't rule out Messam in the AB squad as the backup to Kaino. He would be a good shout to captain the Maori otherwise.

    I'm a big fan of Liam "could've been a great centre" Messam, and thought we didn't miss a beat when he started during the Kaino sabbatical, but I think his chances are very slim. I think they will continue to develop Squire and Dixon.

    I do like the idea of him captaining the Maori in another famous victory against the Lions 🙂

    Yeah, that'd be awesome.

    Because this is such a big one off series, it's not out of the realms of possibility for him to get in there... same with Cruden and TKB. If it was a normal domestic series I think they would focus more on the the future. It would take an injury to Kaino for Messam to get in there; they wouldn't take him as a back up. He'd also have to play the house down for the rest of the Super season and be head and shoulders over Dixon and Squire.



  • I'm not certain that Dixon makes the AB squad. He also isn't guaranteed to start for the Highlanders each week with Whitelock and Squire in the mix so might not get as many opportunities to impress.



  • Yeah, based on the limited opportunities Dixon got last year, he seems like a bit of a placeholder to me, in the squad until someone like Ioane, Seu or Fifita steps up. If Messam keeps playing as well as he has, I wouldn't be surprised to see him take that spot, as he's proven he's up to it if anything happens to Kaino and Hansen seems like he's a fan of him.


Log in to reply