Going after the Aussies



  • With the recent arrival of Tyrel Lomax (great pick-up), Michael Alaalatoa in the recent past who is being groomed for higher honors in NZ I think, I found this article interesting. The Chiefs and BOP/Waikato looking to sign schoolboy Goddard (a good player) as a 10 from under the Brumbies and Australia's noses!
    Is this the way forward for NZ? In the case of Lomax yes I think as he qualifies as a Kiwi but Goddard doesn't I believe. What does this say about the state of Australian rugby as well??

    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/act-sport/super-rugby-waikato-chiefs-keen-on-canberra-rugby-prodigy-will-goddard-20170727-gxk3f6?logout=true

    This all goes on the back of an article from last year about the chiefs holding camps to look for NZ eligible players in Aussie.

    Interesting to see us branching out and using our power in rugby as leverage to get the best players, but if they are not eligible for NZ or do not have intent of staying for residency im not sure.



  • Interestingly, Will Goddard has not been selected for the 2017 Australian Schools team but for the Australian Barbarians Schools team. I'm quite surprised by the Chiefs interest in this player, considering they have already signed a NZ U20s player (Falcon) and you'd think they'd be looking for someone with a bit more experience as currently the only experienced 10 they have is Dmac, who hasn't played at 10 much in recent years. There also doesn't seem to be a shortage of first-fives in NZ, so I'm not quite sure why they are looking over the ditch.



  • NZRU has rules around non NZ eligible players as well which makes them more 'top ups' than projects.
    As for the Chiefs, I would rather they kept Beaver on the payroll as backup. Having that type of senior player around was part and parcel of the good things Rennie did.



  • @crucial Yep, Beaver, or even Delaney.



  • Lomax is going to be a bloody awesome player IMO. It's a real shame we're losing him... but he's a Kiwi. His dad is a Kiwi, he grew up in NZ (moved over at 13 from memory) and now wants to go back. I can't fault him for chasing his dream to be an All Black.

    Mike A is an interesting one, as he was let go by the Tahs (they wanted Ta'avao more than him, shamefully) and now looks to be doing well at the Saders. Good luck to him.

    Never heard of Goddard. I don't think it's cause for concern over here, we've got plenty of other shit to worry about frankly.



  • Agree with @barbarian - I don't think we really have a player problem. We have a pathway problem - for players AND coaches.



  • I don't know about NZ eligibility rules in terms of time in NZ, but Australian citizens get residence on arrival to NZ, so they automatically meet the difficult half of any eligibility equation (obtaining NZ residence is not nearly as easy as people pretend it is, although there are Pacific quotas which make life easier for them - basically a Green card lottery).

    Also, a lot of Aussies are dual citizens or eligible for NZ citizenship by descent because one of their parents is a Kiwi, so that's a solid reason to target that base as well.

    (this is always an amusing issue for the NZ Chess Championships - Aussie junior chessplayers are notoriously stronger than their rankings and often come in large groups, and a number of them are also citizens by descent or birth, so are eligible for the various titles).



  • @godder said in Going after the Aussies:

    I don't know about NZ eligibility rules in terms of time in NZ, but Australian citizens get residence on arrival to NZ, so they automatically meet the difficult half of any eligibility equation (obtaining NZ residence is not nearly as easy as people pretend it is, although there are Pacific quotas which make life easier for them - basically a Green card lottery).

    Also, a lot of Aussies are dual citizens or eligible for NZ citizenship by descent because one of their parents is a Kiwi, so that's a solid reason to target that base as well.

    (this is always an amusing issue for the NZ Chess Championships - Aussie junior chessplayers are notoriously stronger than their rankings and often come in large groups, and a number of them are also citizens by descent or birth, so are eligible for the various titles).

    Citizenship doesn't in itself make you eligible under WR regulations.

    You still have to qualify by birth, parentage, grandparentage, 3 years residency.

    This is because citizenship requirements vary with country ... and can be "fast tracked" by less scrupulous countries.

    FYI:
    NZers in Aus don't get automatic Residence. You get a Special Category Visa which is a temporary visa but lasts indefinitely ... It gives you the right to live and work here, access to Medicare and benefits etc. No voting though as you have to be a Citizen for that.

    But until July this year Permanent Residency was gained the same way as every other foreigner - no favours for those bludging Kiwis who only come here to live on the dole in Bondi, denying decent Aussies the chance to do the same.

    Now, as a Kiwi if you've been here 5(I think) years, earning over $50k, are of "good character" etc you can apply for PR. Two years PR you can apply for Citizenship.



  • @booboo said in Going after the Aussies:

    @godder said in Going after the Aussies:

    I don't know about NZ eligibility rules in terms of time in NZ, but Australian citizens get residence on arrival to NZ, so they automatically meet the difficult half of any eligibility equation (obtaining NZ residence is not nearly as easy as people pretend it is, although there are Pacific quotas which make life easier for them - basically a Green card lottery).

    Also, a lot of Aussies are dual citizens or eligible for NZ citizenship by descent because one of their parents is a Kiwi, so that's a solid reason to target that base as well.

    (this is always an amusing issue for the NZ Chess Championships - Aussie junior chessplayers are notoriously stronger than their rankings and often come in large groups, and a number of them are also citizens by descent or birth, so are eligible for the various titles).

    Citizenship doesn't in itself make you eligible under WR regulations.

    You still have to qualify by birth, parentage, grandparentage, 3 years residency.

    This is because citizenship requirements vary with country ... and can be "fast tracked" by less scrupulous countries.

    FYI:
    NZers in Aus don't get automatic Residence. You get a Special Category Visa which is a temporary visa but lasts indefinitely ... It gives you the right to live and work here, access to Medicare and benefits etc. No voting though as you have to be a Citizen for that.

    But until July this year Permanent Residency was gained the same way as every other foreigner - no favours for those bludging Kiwis who only come here to live on the dole in Bondi, denying decent Aussies the chance to do the same.

    Now, as a Kiwi if you've been here 5(I think) years, earning over $50k, are of "good character" etc you can apply for PR. Two years PR you can apply for Citizenship.

    Wait! What? I'm pretty sure the SCV doesn't include benefits.



  • @nta said in Going after the Aussies:

    Agree with @barbarian - I don't think we really have a player problem. We have a pathway problem - for players AND coaches.

    That's really the issue. A number of Australian players have made no secret that they consider the professional development across the ditch orders of magnitudes better.

    Goddard will be a loss - he's one of those players that has all the time in the world (well, compared to his peers).



  • Plenty of Australians with NZ heritage would choose ABs over Wallabies in a heartbeat. Might as well go after them rather than let the ARU mismanagement them or lose them to league.



  • @nepia said in Going after the Aussies:

    @booboo said in Going after the Aussies:

    @godder said in Going after the Aussies:

    I don't know about NZ eligibility rules in terms of time in NZ, but Australian citizens get residence on arrival to NZ, so they automatically meet the difficult half of any eligibility equation (obtaining NZ residence is not nearly as easy as people pretend it is, although there are Pacific quotas which make life easier for them - basically a Green card lottery).

    Also, a lot of Aussies are dual citizens or eligible for NZ citizenship by descent because one of their parents is a Kiwi, so that's a solid reason to target that base as well.

    (this is always an amusing issue for the NZ Chess Championships - Aussie junior chessplayers are notoriously stronger than their rankings and often come in large groups, and a number of them are also citizens by descent or birth, so are eligible for the various titles).

    Citizenship doesn't in itself make you eligible under WR regulations.

    You still have to qualify by birth, parentage, grandparentage, 3 years residency.

    This is because citizenship requirements vary with country ... and can be "fast tracked" by less scrupulous countries.

    FYI:
    NZers in Aus don't get automatic Residence. You get a Special Category Visa which is a temporary visa but lasts indefinitely ... It gives you the right to live and work here, access to Medicare and benefits etc. No voting though as you have to be a Citizen for that.

    But until July this year Permanent Residency was gained the same way as every other foreigner - no favours for those bludging Kiwis who only come here to live on the dole in Bondi, denying decent Aussies the chance to do the same.

    Now, as a Kiwi if you've been here 5(I think) years, earning over $50k, are of "good character" etc you can apply for PR. Two years PR you can apply for Citizenship.

    Wait! What? I'm pretty sure the SCV doesn't include benefits.

    Some:

    http://www.border.gov.au/about/corporate/information/fact-sheets/17nz#b

    Changes introduced on 26 February 2001

    A new bilateral social security arrangement between Australia and New Zealand was announced on 26 February 2001. This agreement sets out arrangements for payment of age pension, disability support pension and carer payment to New Zealand citizens in Australia.

    It also recognised the right of each country to determine access to social security benefits not covered by the agreement, and to set related residence and citizenship rules according to the respective country’s national legislative and policy frameworks. In line with that principle Australia introduced a number of supplementary changes.

    As a result, the Social Security Act 1991 requires New Zealand citizens who arrived in Australia after 26 February 2001 to apply for and be granted an Australian permanent visa to access certain social security payments (including income support payments) that are not covered by the bilateral agreement.



  • Heard this rumour. Three year deal, I thought he was Aussies best in matches recently. Son of ARU recrument manager, how crazy!!
    https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/rugby/australia-schoolboys-lock-nick-frost-snubs-waratahs-to-sign-with-crusaders/news-story/5871f34d05b33e3bbb7429314d13b219



  • @98blueandgold Unless we can poach him after three years, what's the point of wasting money to develop a foreign player. The Crusaders are potentially developing a future Wallaby here. I really don't know what they are trying to achieve by signing all these overseas players. That money could have been put into the development of one of the NZ youngsters instead.