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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
You're acting like it's a police state. Don't buy all the bullshit that the Free Speech Warriors are selling on TSF, or elsewhere.
What’s the bullshit we’re allegedly selling?
See, that’s part of being a Free Speech Warrior. I want to hear your argument. You haven’t convinced me yet. Find a better argument. Maybe you’ll convince me. And whether you can-or-can’t, nobody should lose their livelihood arguing the point.
And in fairness, and more importantly The Law, if a court finds Folau’s lawsuit has merit and he wins and RA is bankrupted, by your logic it surely falls on RA to pay the piper for their choices and convictions, correct?
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
Media don't help by breathlessly reporting everything, going over his religous activities in detail, etc.
On Fox Sports last night in the pregame show one of the panel (Justin Harrison?) was saying "I don't want to hear or speak any more about it". The host (Nick McArdle) saying "but here we are, talking about it, and we're probably going to keep talking about it" referring to the news cycle.
The fucked irony is: this is the only newsworthy thing resulting to rugby that will get a run on Free To Air. Brumbies in the finals? Who cares?! Izyy wants a court case.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
What’s the bullshit we’re allegedly selling?
I'm not actually sure, because it relates to some mythical "freedom of speech" or "freedom of religion" best, that has nothing to do with Folau's lack of employment to this point.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Question: If a player tweeted "Religion is bullshit and God doesn't exist" should they be fired?
That is unknown to this point, because as far as I'm aware, nobody has been stupid enough to do so.
They'd probably get the same treatment Folau got, with conditions such as prior warning, contrition, etc taken into account.
It's a great question tho - doubt whether anyone wants to test it.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
What’s the bullshit we’re allegedly selling?
I'm not actually sure, because it relates to some mythical "freedom of speech" or "freedom of religion" beat that has nothing to do with Folau's lack of employment to this point.
Well, that’s one perspective. Completely unconvincing. But it’s a perspective, and again, not worth losing a job over.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Kirwan seriously tho a lot of the hardcore Bible bashers here are throwing cash into it, like this is the pinnacle of free speech/religion judgements; an existential threat or something
He's probably not the hero people want but I think many will be looking to this as someone making a stand. There is definitely a lot of pent up angst in Australia at the excesses of the progressive movement especially over the events of the last 2-3 years and the refusal of many to call it out, Folau might just be the symbol of a resistance even if it might look like he is money grubbing to many.
I have read that three times now, and really have no idea what you're talking about.
Are you saying that the conservative government with a conservative prime Minister (an evangelical Christian no less), who have had run of the country for 6 years, are - along with the wider society - somehow being hounded to the point where they need some greedy fucking idiot who pissed away his professional sporting contract, in order to somehow re-establish an imaginary balance that conservatives have somehow been denied?
Or is it just coincidence that Folau's actions have arisen in conservative Australia's hour of need?
Nope.
Events such as modern day abortion glamorisation, Victoria's 'safe schools' program that sexualises children put together by an open communist who hates Australia and overseen by an open paedophile advocate. The violence and intimidation brought on by the 'Yes' campaign during the marriage postal survey. World wide persecution of christians in some areas at almost genocidal levels but rarely covered by mainstream media. Social media platforms bias against christians. The glamorisation of transgender children resulting in huge increases of even primary school children now undergoing gender transition in Australia. The progressive removal of gender from Australian law.
These could of course all be isolated incidences but Christians are on social media too and this sort of stuff is highlighted regularly so they naturally feel very much under attack. This support of Folau could very well be an extension of that. A christian standing up for his beliefs and people want to be a part of that especially if they are unable in their own lives for fear of violence or ostracisation.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
The progressive removal of gender from Australian law.
Focus on this one for a second, and give me an example.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Question: If a player tweeted "Religion is bullshit and God doesn't exist" should they be fired?
That is unknown to this point, because as far as I'm aware, nobody has been stupid enough to do so.
They'd probably get the same treatment Folau got, with conditions such as prior warning, contrition, etc taken into account.
It's a great question tho - doubt whether anyone wants to test it.
It would be very interesting to see whether those calling for Fôlœ's head would defend said player and whether those defending Fôlœ would be calling for said player's head. What I do know is that those apparent snowflake "freedom of speech" warriors would be supporting said player.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Thanks.
So - to go off topic for a second - how does the removal of gender in these instances affect Christians or Conservatives?
Like a good saying I heard some years back: "if you don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married". Yes?
Back to the matter at hand: I'm not sure that any of the things you mention will be alleviated by Folau getting richer. He's not a pilot whale for Christianity; probably his particular sect thinks most of them are venal, bloated institutions who don't serve God in the way they should.
In fact - besides the quoted genocide (something hardly restricted to Christians) - the everyday impact to most Christians of Folau winning or losing, will be utterly minimal.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
What I do know is that those apparent snowflake "freedom of speech" warriors would be supporting said player.
Well... ... maybe not the Christian ones 😉
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
What I do know is that those apparent snowflake "freedom of speech" warriors would be supporting said player.
Well... ... maybe not the Christian ones 😉
Many of those on TSF?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Question: If a player tweeted "Religion is bullshit and God doesn't exist" should they be fired?
That is unknown to this point, because as far as I'm aware, nobody has been stupid enough to do so.
They'd probably get the same treatment Folau got, with conditions such as prior warning, contrition, etc taken into account.
It's a great question tho - doubt whether anyone wants to test it.
It would be very interesting to see whether those calling for Fôlœ's head would defend said player and whether those defending Fôlœ would be calling for said player's head. What I do know is that those apparent snowflake "freedom of speech" warriors would be supporting said player.
If the player did it, copped a load of shit, got warned by his employer and then did it again, I'd think he was almost as big an idiot as Folau. Or maybe more of an idiot as he wouldn't have religion to hide behind and absolve responsibility. Tough call. Can't say I'd be defending him though.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
100 percent with Drew
Nah that's fucked up. Completely uncalled for. So he can't use GoFundMe because there are more worthy causes?
Who said that?
Not Drew, nor me.
Um. Yes he did.
Where?
Really? Did you actually read his entire Tweet?
Yes. He doesn’t say he can’t use it for this. He says he’s a fluffybunny for using it like this.
Same as what @barbarian says above.
He wrote: "You think you deserve donations more than they do."
Where did he even say that or imply that? Mitchell's essentially saying that by starting the GoFundMe page he's telling people not to give money to them but to him. That's fucked up. Phonglau can go hang for all I care, but Mitchell is still a fluffy bunny for saying that.
That’s not saying he can’t use it!
In some ways I’m glad he’s done it. As it’s exposed him for how, in my opinion, completely fucked up he truly is.
And it’s Drew’s opinion there are more worthy causes. Which I agree with. I actually think that the other more worthy causes would have got more traffic due to Mitchell’s post too, which can only be a good thing.
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@NTA said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Thanks.
So - to go off topic for a second - how does the removal of gender in these instances affect Christians or Conservatives?
Like a good saying I heard some years back: "if you don't like gay marriage, don't get gay married". Yes?
Both Christians and conservatives put great value on the traditional family unit. They both see this trans fetish as innately harmful to society, its a weird position we are in where Christians are now standing directly opposed to science deniers. Plenty of folk both Christian and non-christian believe in the 'live and let live' principle, however when we are looking at 4 year old kids starting gender transition therapy most folk see how that is moving into the realms of child abuse. These law changes are part of that movement, people are being taught in university that gender is a social construct, this has almost zero basis in science. Changing a law gives an authority to this gender theory and there could be significant consequences to that.
Back to the matter at hand: I'm not sure that any of the things you mention will be alleviated by Folau getting richer. He's not a pilot whale for Christianity;
$500,000.00 in 3 days says he might be for some
probably his particular sect thinks most of them are venal, bloated institutions who don't serve God in the way they should.
Yes he spoke about that in his sermon. Many religious institutions have lost their principles.
In fact - besides the quoted genocide (something hardly restricted to Christians)
True however most wouldn't know that they are the most persecuted religion in the world. For some reason western media have a habit of only focusing on non-christian attacks. A great example was that Canadian girl a couple years back who had her hijab cut, somehow that was worthy of world wide news headlines and comments from heads of state. You can imagine Christians who are getting news of increased church and clergy attacks get extremely annoyed at the bias.
- the everyday impact to most Christians of Folau winning or losing, will be utterly minimal.
Yep 100%. Its not going to change a damn thing. I sympathise with his position and I understand why people are supporting him. I can't say if he is in the right or wrong here as I am not familiar with his contract and Australian employment law. I'd venture that correct process was not followed in his dismissal so that he might just win on that rather than on 'freedom of religion' grounds which might have set a precedent.
But yeah I won't be funding him even though the 'freedom of expression' issue is important to me, there are plenty of others going through the same thing currently who are more deserving.
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@rotated said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
I can’t even see how that’s related.
When you contrast professional athletes with real people in tough or tragic situation it is never terribly a good look. That is what Mitchell has tried to do with his post but it just shows a lack of self reflection.
Posting the Go Fund Me is a bit tacky in my opinion, but hey there seem to be many people out there willing to back it. But I don't think for a second that he is taking money from these other causes, I don't think people scroll through the site looking to give money away at random. People have gone there specifically to donate to him as it's the primary method for collecting funds for this type of thing.
Given we don't have all the facts in the case I would prefer to see this go to the courts. If Folau were to win he would not be asking people to "pay for the consequences of his mistakes" he would be asking people to help him defend his (and in turn others) human rights.
That’s a fair assessment.
I noted above that the others may have got more traffic too, which is only a good thing.
However, it doesn’t change the audacity of the whole situation in my view.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Both Christians and conservatives put great value on the traditional family unit. They both see this trans fetish as innately harmful to society, its a weird position we are in where Christians are now standing directly opposed to science deniers. Plenty of folk both Christian and non-christian believe in the 'live and let live' principle, however when we are looking at 4 year old kids starting gender transition therapy most folk see how that is moving into the realms of child abuse. These law changes are part of that movement, people are being taught in university that gender is a social construct, this has almost zero basis in science. Changing a law gives an authority to this gender theory and there could be significant consequences to that.
What sort of s good family unit tells their gay son he’s going to hell?
$500,000.00 in 3 days says he might be for some
probably his particular sect thinks most of them are venal, bloated institutions who don't serve God in the way they should.
Yes he spoke about that in his sermon. Many religious institutions have lost their principles.
The principle of not giving gay people rights or the principle of having tattoos?
True however most wouldn't know that they are the most persecuted religion in the world. For some reason western media have a habit of only focusing on non-christian attacks. A great example was that Canadian girl a couple years back who had her hijab cut, somehow that was worthy of world wide news headlines and comments from heads of state. You can imagine Christians who are getting news of increased church and clergy attacks get extremely annoyed at the bias.
Yep 100%. Its not going to change a damn thing. I sympathise with his position and I understand why people are supporting him. I can't say if he is in the right or wrong here as I am not familiar with his contract and Australian employment law. I'd venture that correct process was not followed in his dismissal so that he might just win on that rather than on 'freedom of religion' grounds which might have set a precedent.
But yeah I won't be funding him even though the 'freedom of expression' issue is important to me, there are plenty of others going through the same thing currently who are more deserving.
Agree with the above but I’m not comfortable with this being s Christian only thing. As that is a baseless case (here).
I wonder how much would be raised if he was a Muslim spouting the same things about homosexuals.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
100 percent with Drew
Nah that's fucked up. Completely uncalled for. So he can't use GoFundMe because there are more worthy causes?
Who said that?
Not Drew, nor me.
Um. Yes he did.
Where?
Really? Did you actually read his entire Tweet?
Yes. He doesn’t say he can’t use it for this. He says he’s a fluffybunny for using it like this.
Same as what @barbarian says above.
He wrote: "You think you deserve donations more than they do."
Where did he even say that or imply that? Mitchell's essentially saying that by starting the GoFundMe page he's telling people not to give money to them but to him. That's fucked up. Phonglau can go hang for all I care, but Mitchell is still a fluffy bunny for saying that.
That’s not saying he can’t use it!
In some ways I’m glad he’s done it. As it’s exposed him for how, in my opinion, completely fucked up he truly is.
And it’s Drew’s opinion there are more worthy causes. Which I agree with. I actually think that the other more worthy causes would have got more traffic due to Mitchell’s post too, which can only be a good thing.
It is effectively. And of course there are more worthy causes but Fœlö never said he deserved money more than them. That was completely uncalled for regardless of how much of a FB the Fœlö may be.
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@MajorRage said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Both Christians and conservatives put great value on the traditional family unit. They both see this trans fetish as innately harmful to society, its a weird position we are in where Christians are now standing directly opposed to science deniers. Plenty of folk both Christian and non-christian believe in the 'live and let live' principle, however when we are looking at 4 year old kids starting gender transition therapy most folk see how that is moving into the realms of child abuse. These law changes are part of that movement, people are being taught in university that gender is a social construct, this has almost zero basis in science. Changing a law gives an authority to this gender theory and there could be significant consequences to that.
What sort of s good family unit tells their gay son he’s going to hell?
Yep I'd even go as far to say from my understanding of Christianity that would be a very unchristian thing to say. A happy medium between Folau's churches views and modern progressive insanity would be best.
$500,000.00 in 3 days says he might be for some
probably his particular sect thinks most of them are venal, bloated institutions who don't serve God in the way they should.
Yes he spoke about that in his sermon. Many religious institutions have lost their principles.
The principle of not giving gay people rights or the principle of having tattoos?
Gay marriage and children undergoing gender transition. Its interesting the marriage debate was framed as a 'rights' issue. Christians regarded marriage as a religious institution between a man and a woman for the purpose of raising a family. Gay marriage doesn't fit into this definition.True however most wouldn't know that they are the most persecuted religion in the world. For some reason western media have a habit of only focusing on non-christian attacks. A great example was that Canadian girl a couple years back who had her hijab cut, somehow that was worthy of world wide news headlines and comments from heads of state. You can imagine Christians who are getting news of increased church and clergy attacks get extremely annoyed at the bias.
Yep 100%. Its not going to change a damn thing. I sympathise with his position and I understand why people are supporting him. I can't say if he is in the right or wrong here as I am not familiar with his contract and Australian employment law. I'd venture that correct process was not followed in his dismissal so that he might just win on that rather than on 'freedom of religion' grounds which might have set a precedent.
But yeah I won't be funding him even though the 'freedom of expression' issue is important to me, there are plenty of others going through the same thing currently who are more deserving.
Agree with the above but I’m not comfortable with this being s Christian only thing. As that is a baseless case (here).
I wonder how much would be raised if he was a Muslim spouting the same things about homosexuals.
Probably best for another thread but calling for homosexuality to be made illegal or even punishable by death by Muslims (or other non christian faiths) for the most part seem to avoid the lgbt outrage mobs. I'm sure the counter protesters at Anderton Park in Birmingham will show up any day now...
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@Rembrandt That's a different unrelated issue and yes, lets not pollute this thread with that ...
@Rancid-Schnitzel cool, so you agree with me didn't say that Folau couldn't do it.
Agree he never said he deserved it more. But he put his claim right beside them, with a significantly larger target. It makes him look like a colossal self-obsessed shitbag and that is what Drew is calling him.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions