EOYT Revenue Sharing



  • Some suggestions in the media the last couple of days that NZR would push harder for a share of the takings on the EOYT, should it proceed. And they might seek World Rugby backing to do so. Then I read also that the England RFU is looking at a $100m hole (converted) and they're already on the offensive re SH teams looking for more money.

    Lastly, World Rugby made about $350m from the last RWC, and $375m from the 2015 RWC. I know a lot of that would be re-invested into various tournaments and events over a four year cycle, but now might be the time to put a hold on some of those events and throw some cash at the member unions.





  • Just play hard ball. WR is in no position to dictate pre Covid rules if they want to re-establish the international game.
    Why would anyone do a loss making tour to benefit the country they are touring?
    For the hosts it is simple. Share or get nothing.



  • @Crucial said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    Just play hard ball. WR is in no position to dictate pre Covid rules if they want to re-establish the international game.
    Why would anyone do a loss making tour to benefit the country they are touring?
    For the hosts it is simple. Share or get nothing.

    100%. If they don't they may not have teams to play against.

    On the bright side, this makes overseas opportunities less attractive to our talent. We may be more than just a talent development piece



  • @Crucial said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    For the hosts it is simple. Share or get nothing.

    Yep.

    I expect that the NPC will be played in that Nov/Dec window if SR can't resume in time.



  • I doubt that there will be a November tour this year.

    If there was, I'd assume it would be revenue shared or not at all.

    In the case of not at all, the 6N unions have the option to replay some of the abandoned 6 Nations games.
    I'd imagine SANZAAR's option 1 would be to play a delayed version of TRC during that time, but I can see difficulties expecting a tournament covering 3 continents and an island - all coming out of restrictions at the same time.



  • I also doubt the there will be any EOYT this year. WR needs to take a chance to survey the rubble and reset. Remember that there were other options for the world game being bandied around prior to all of this.

    As for NZ Rugby, we may be in a position to create a one-off comp with existing frameworks being bolstered by overseas stars and marketed internationally while things get sorted out.



  • @Crucial said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    Just play hard ball. WR is in no position to dictate pre Covid rules if they want to re-establish the international game.
    Why would anyone do a loss making tour to benefit the country they are touring?
    For the hosts it is simple. Share or get nothing.

    i understand the sentiment, and i am not ignorant of the economic realities but...

    because it is sport, and the beauty of rugby is the strength of the international game. I want the ABs to play away, and in all honesty, personally the money involved means nothing to me.



  • I'd rather the ABs play at home this year, than away.



  • Organise an alternative PNC: NZ, Australia, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga, if the COVID19 status of these nations allows it.



  • The RFU ain't going to allow 50:50 revenue of an international at Twickenham. They have their own bills to pay.



  • @sparky

    @sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    The RFU ain't going to allow 50:50 revenue of an international at Twickenham. They have their own bills to pay.

    And so do their opposition. No opposition to play means no income so there will surely be room to accommodate some sort of revenue sharing that is an awful lot better than that embarrassingly shocking one that involved England and Fiji a couple of years back



  • @Higgins If the NZRU refuse to send a team, they'll arrange an extra test with Wales or Japan and fill Twickenham anyway. A large proportion of the Twickenham crowd don't come to watch the Rugby. This is especially true on a Sunday.

    That said, a crowd of 8 people gathering in the UK seems a long way off at the moment, let alone 82,000.



  • @sparky That may be true but Wales will need to be able to finance their team and other than Six Nations games the only other side that fills most of the NOrthern grounds to capacity is the All Blacks.



  • @Higgins said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @sparky That may be true but Wales will need to be able to finance their team and other than Six Nations games the only other side that fills most of the NOrthern grounds to capacity is the All Blacks.

    Wrong, Twickenham makes a lot of its money from debenitures which are sold years in advance. Almost all games against Tier One nations are 82,000 sell outs. Lots of the crowd aren't really there to watch Rugby, but to have a sing song with thousands of others with bars nearby.

    Given England is losing 700 people a day to the Coronavirus at the moment and the UK PM is in hospital. Threatening them at the moment (especially with a basically empty threat) is an appalling negotiation strategy.



  • Over 340 out of 500 odd RFU employees are currently furloughed are receivcing 85% of their wages through thr UK government's bailout scheme.

    Getting most of them back to work and making up its £50 million shortfall will byethe RFU's main priorities.

    Some interesting quotes from RFU boss Bill Sweeney here, talking about maximising their revenue in the Autumn but acknowledging major changes to the global game are now necessary.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rugbypass.com/news/a-whopping-340-of-the-rfus-staff-62-per-cent-of-the-organisation-are-currently-on-furlough-bill-sweeney/

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/apr/04/rfu-autumn-internationals-rugby-union

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/52149160



  • I'm sure revenue sharing can be worked out so everyone makes money.



  • Hopefully Sweeney is being honest when he says this could help the game long term. I'm sure he's hoping this will help get private premiership clubs under control. The real fly in the ointment is CVC, as they don't give a shit about anything but their money.



  • @Machpants Stand alone internationals make little sense financially. I supect to see some move towards a global season which the RFU will welcome so long as it doesn't threaten the cash cow of the 6 Nations.

    The club game in Europe has been pissing away money for years. I expect to see National unions in the north try to exert more discipline and control on how money gets spent. Post-COVID 19, I wouldn't be surprised to see global playoffs between HEC and Super Rugby finalists.



  • How cash strapped are the clubs? Traditionally the biggest obstacle to anything sensible in rationalising the professional calendar.



  • @antipodean said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    How cash strapped are the clubs? Traditionally the biggest obstacle to anything sensible in rationalising the professional calendar.

    Many are on the brink of financial ruin.

    Bath, Newcastle and Worcester Warriors have furloughed their players:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/rugby-union/52141413



  • @sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @antipodean said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    How cash strapped are the clubs? Traditionally the biggest obstacle to anything sensible in rationalising the professional calendar.

    On the brink of financial ruin.

    So hopefully they'll be more amenable to discussions than they've previously been. That goes for the SRU et al. who torpedoed the last attempt to a global calendar.



  • @antipodean Several other clubs have slashed wages. A lot of former ABs playing in Europe might well now return to the NPC/Super Rugby.



  • Some interesting quotes here from World Rugby boss Bill Beaumont calling on governments to bail out atruggling Rugby unions:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-8177487/amp/World-Rugby-chief-Bill-Beaumont-fears-game-faces-financial-apocalypse.html



  • @antipodean said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    How cash strapped are the clubs? Traditionally the biggest obstacle to anything sensible in rationalising the professional calendar.

    Problem is, UK at least, they have always been cash strapped. Then their Sugar Daddy just pumps more in. Only Exeter made a profit last year. Hopefully sugar Daddies will dry up as cash machines, CVC already own part of the Premiership - and that is a major problem. The piddling amount of money those clubs got for that will ahve already been pissed against the wall on over inflated wages.



  • Filling the stadia post-Covid is not going to be a problem regardless of the opposition.



  • @MiketheSnow said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    Filling the stadia post-Covid is not going to be a problem regardless of the opposition.

    That is the issue that some of you guys don't quite see. The RFU, WRU et al can fill their stadia four times over. Every 6 N game at Twickenham is over subscribed fourfold. All the AIs apart from the PIs are the same. Regardless of the opposition (saving the PIs as above). It would take a long term stand with complete solidarity to try and force the issue and that could quite easily prove to be detrimental to SANZAR more than the NH unions and to be honest Aus and SA don't seem quite so bothered.



  • @Catogrande said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @MiketheSnow said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    Filling the stadia post-Covid is not going to be a problem regardless of the opposition.

    That is the issue that some of you guys don't quite see. The RFU, WRU et al can fill their stadia four times over. Every 6 N game at Twickenham is over subscribed fourfold. All the AIs apart from the PIs are the same. Regardless of the opposition (saving the PIs as above). It would take a long term stand with complete solidarity to try and force the issue and that could quite easily prove to be detrimental to SANZAR more than the NH unions and to be honest Aus and SA don't seem quite so bothered.

    True for the most part, although Australia's botheredness may change as they go under. They are seriously on the brink.



  • @sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    The RFU ain't going to allow 50:50 revenue of an international at Twickenham. They have their own bills to pay.

    Who says it has to be 50:50? England is always going to be a big draw for their home fans so there's no reason why that should result in an even split. However, they could surely charge a premium for tickets to AB matches and that's where maybe the ABs can get a slice of that premium or revenue sharing on an alternative basis, e.g. 65:35.



  • I think given the lack of rugby, an early, extended EOYT with a reasonable revenue split would assist both hemispheres.



  • NZR needs to focus on domestic rugby this season. It's very unlikely Scotland and Wales will tour in July so I wouldn't bother with the EOYT either. And that is assuming that international borders are open and travel is even possible later in the year. If some international rugby is possible play the RC, giving each team home and away games.



  • I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.



  • @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.

    They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.



  • @Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.

    They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.

    Yes, aware of that. I think the attitude will be "fine, don't come".



  • @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.

    They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.

    Yes, aware of that. I think the attitude will be "fine, don't come".

    So sharing revenue is worse than no revenue?



  • @Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.

    They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.

    Yes, aware of that. I think the attitude will be "fine, don't come".

    So sharing revenue is worse than no revenue?

    Showing weakness and pushed around by NZ or Aus worse than no revenue, correct.

    I imagine SA (world champs, Lions next year) and Japan (cos everybody LOVES Japan) are the only ones with bargaining chips. The fact SA & Japan are loaded just a co-incidence you see, old son.



  • @junior

    Undoubtedly there is a bit of a premium for the All Blacks or the Springboks in the UK, but less than most people in NZ or SA think.

    As someone said above England can fill their ground four times over for 6N and almost all Autumn Internationals. A second Six Nations in 2020 would be extremely popular now. Also, individual All Blacks (Lomu, Carter and SBW besides) are hardly household names here. They can ride the Tube when they are in London. Compared to the Film stars, pop stars, tennis players, NFL stars and top footballers who appear in London regularly (in normal times), the All Blacks aren't always going to be the biggest show in town.



  • @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.

    No one's going to be negotiating anything right now (and I don't think anyone was suggesting that anyone would be). However, it's almost a certainty that there will be scope for some kind of negotiation at some point down the track



  • @sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @junior

    Undoubtedly there is a bit of a premium for the All Blacks or the Springboks in the UK, but less than moat people in NZ or SA think.

    As someone said above England can fill their ground four times over for 6N and almost all Autumn Internationals. A second Six Nations in 2020 would be extremely popular now. Also, individual All Blacks (Lomu, Carter and SBW besides) are hardly household names here. They can ride the Tube when they are in London. Compared to the Film stars, pop stars, tennis players, NFL stars and top footballers who appear in London regularly (in normal times), the All Blacks aren't always going to be the biggest show in town.

    I don't disagree. My point is that there is still probably a premium, which I think might be a more realistic in terms of getting a slice of.

    So, for example, if:

    • x is what the RFU charges for a ticket for an England v Samoa match; and

    • x+50% is what is charged for a ticket to an England v All Blacks match

    then maybe the NZRU should try and negotiate a cut (let's say 35%) of that extra 50%?

    It won't be the 50:50 that some people seem to think is the only option, but it is a good starting point and certainly better than the nothing we currently get. And, importantly, the RFU still get a massive payday.



  • @junior said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    @MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:

    I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.

    No one's going to be negotiating anything right now (and I don't think anyone was suggesting that anyone would be). However, it's almost a certainty that there will be scope for some kind of negotiation at some point down the track

    I didn't say right now, I said at this juncture.

    Everything in the world is at a juncture now. Covid is quite the game changer.

    It's not possible to overstate how important the 6N is up here, and how little people really care about the AI.


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