AB Golden era?



  • LIstening to Wynne Grey on the way home and he reckons this is the best AB era ever, surpassing the 60's, 80's, only team he says comes close is the 95/96 team
     
    Looking back to 2011 and around that time, tough to disagree?
     
    http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/radiosport/2016.04.19-17.00.00-S.mp3
    http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/radiosport/2016.04.19-17.15.00-S.mp3



  • Hard to argue, certainly a golden era of players. Once in a lifetime All Blacks like McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith etc.
     
    Winning back to back RWC's wont be an easy achievement to match, for any other team/nation.



  • Hard to argue, certainly a golden era of players. Once in a lifetime All Blacks like McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Smith etc.
     
    Winning back to back RWC's wont be an easy achievement to match, for any other team/nation.

    First two for sure but as awesome as the other two were hard to put them in that echelon.....I mean how bout Lomu and Cully ?
     
    Aw well ok at 12 Ma'a gets in only cos there probably hasn't been a production line of legends like in the 7 and 10 jerseys......



  • Smith formed one of our best if not the best midfield partnerships we have ever had.
    Together unbeaten at RWC's...



  • is more the processions of players to ensure almost seamless transition when you lose such quality, I expect this year will be the biggest challenge of the era, but I think the legacy started by Henry, Smith and Hansen has left such an impression that the ABs will march along as they always seem to.
     
    Granted some individuals stand out, plenty of all time greats, but as a unit (players, coaching staff, backroom folk) on and off the field, this is where they stand head and shoulders above.



  • Smith formed one of our best if not the best midfield partnerships we have ever had.
    Together unbeaten at RWC's...

    That is tough to argue I give you that but individuals of the pro era like Bunce and Umaga can stake claims for the 13 jersey. This is pretty fresh in the memory from a chat a bunch of mates and I had over a few brews about the best AB team of the pro era in which McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Lomu and Cully all got in without anyone even having time to sip the beer we brewed but arguments were made for the two I mentioned earlier over Smith......



  • Bunce and Bruce Robertson in my life time
     
    But won't quibble with Conrad either - these debates are impossible to reconcile
     
    Bill Osborne was pretty special at 2nd five



  • I don't remember those two, a couple of the guys I was drinking with were over 40 but the consensus was one of Bunce, Umaga or Smith. I was a huge fan of all of them to be fair and a WC winners medal ( or two ) speaks volumes but it'd be a brave soul who'd pick Dagg, Smith, Savea, Kahui, Jane etc over Cully and Jonah.



  • Although I respect the achievements of past All Black teams, I simply can't see how this can even be debated
     
    How long is an era?  5 years?  10 years?
     
    Well, in the last 5 years we lost what, 3 times was it?  Drew a couple of times and won the rest.  Won back to back world cups, won and retained the bledisloe every year, 21 games in the RC, won 18, lost 2, drew once, NH tours, lost 1, won the rest.  Mid year AB games, France, Ireland, England all dispatched 3-zip isn't it?
     
    It's been utter sporting dominance.  
     
    EDIT - not lost at home since 2009 too.



  • Bill Osborne was pretty special at 2nd five

    I was only a little fella when he played but special is not how I would describe him. Average All Black springs to my mind.



  • Although I respect the achievements of past All Black teams, I simply can't see how this can even be debated
     
    How long is an era?  5 years?  10 years?
     
    Well, in the last 5 years we lost what, 3 times was it?  Drew a couple of times and won the rest.  Won back to back world cups, won and retained the bledisloe every year, 21 games in the RC, won 18, lost 2, drew once, NH tours, lost 1, won the rest.  Mid year AB games, France, Ireland, England all dispatched 3-zip isn't it?
     
    It's been utter sporting dominance.

    Yep, there's nearly a generation of AB fans who know no different to the recent superiority
     
    I'm sure it can't last but will savour it while I can (those '98 scars still run deep)



  • I was only a little fella when he played but special is not how I would describe him. Average All Black springs to my mind.

    Yeah? I thought he was one of the first block busting 2nd fives that ran and hit really hard. I thought he was a bit of a star, but as you say it was a while ago. He was above average I reckon



  • Bunce and Bruce Robertson in my life time
    But won't quibble with Conrad either - these debates are impossible to reconcile
    Bill Osborne was pretty special at 2nd five
    Impossible to reconcile but absolutely worth it.
    Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk



  • Agree with MR. Utter dominance.
    We are the Rocco Siffredi of rugby.
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  • Yep, there's nearly a generation of AB fans who know no different to the recent superiority
     
    I'm sure it can't last but will savour it while I can (those '98 scars still run deep)

    Bit of an over the top description there Siam, were you an AB or something ?



  • Agree with MR. Utter dominance.
    We are the Rocco Siffredi of rugby.
    Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

    Just googled that fucker at work!  NSFW warning.
     
    (pun intended)



  • Just googled that fucker at work! NSFW warning.
    (pun intended)
    I meant Rocky Balboa...auto correct
    Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk



  • Bit of an over the top description there Siam, were you an AB or something ?

    Wash your mouth out with soap and water young man!! 🙂
     
    Those fuckers who wear all black, play for me and us don't you know. They know how hard we take losses and how much we celebrate wins.
     
    Take away the fan emotion and you've got sweet fuck all regardless of the win ratio 
     
    You spend your time living in Australia and a month and a half seeing the AB's lose over and over and tell me it's no big deal
     
    If 98 didn't piss you off, then you were too young to know stuff or you're fair weathered 🙂
     
    You should be ashamed you wrote that 😉
     
     
    ps please note all the smilies and yes those scars still run deep - bad times my friend



  • Yeah? I thought he was one of the first block busting 2nd fives that ran and hit really hard. I thought he was a bit of a star, but as you say it was a while ago. He was above average I reckon

    Not sure he was one of first blockbusting 2nd fives, mind you I am remember Ian MacCrae from the 60s, but Osborne was above average, still remember him being picked from early trial, in the days there were trials, and All Blacks were always picked from 2nd trial. They played 2 trials in a day, one was almost a cutain raiser.



  • Not sure he was one of first blockbusting 2nd fives, mind you I am remember Ian MacCrae from the 60s, but Osborne was above average, still remember him being picked from early trial, in the days there were trials, and All Blacks were always picked from 2nd trial. They played 2 trials in a day, one was almost a cutain raiser.

    Yeah I missed MacCrae but he must have been some player
     
    I might have had an uncle that was a Bill fan and it rubbed off but he was a permanent fixture in my impressionable years, and a fkn hard bastard



  • Wash your mouth out with soap and water young man!! 🙂
     
    Those fuckers who wear all black, play for me and us don't you know. They know how hard we take losses and how much we celebrate wins.
     
    Take away the fan emotion and you've got sweet fuck all regardless of the win ratio 
     
    You spend your time living in Australia and a month and a half seeing the AB's lose over and over and tell me it's no big deal
     
    If 98 didn't piss you off, then you were too young to know stuff or you're fair weathered 🙂
     
    You should be ashamed you wrote that 😉
     
     
    ps please note all the smilies and yes those scars still run deep - bad times my friend

    I do hear all that and love the passion but unless your name is Isitolo Maka, Royce Willis or Joeli Vidiri then maybe talking about "scars" is a bit much ? the power of this rant also depends on how much you've had to drink of course....
     
    I lived in Oz in late 03 and hung out with lots of poms ( of which the female of the species tended to go topless a lot which dulled the pain ). We've all had tough times.



  • Our best ever era without a doubt, even better when you consider the game is now professional which was meant to mean the rich Unions would start to dominate. The opposite has happened in the last 12 years - we're even further ahead of the pack then ever.



  • It is a great source of pride with many management and process learnings thrown in as well
     
    Also a great way to make my non NZ friends' eyes glass over when I point this out



  • I do hear all that and love the passion but unless your name is Isitolo Maka, Royce Willis or Joeli Vidiri then maybe talking about "scars" is a bit much ? the power of this rant also depends on how much you've had to drink of course....
     
    I lived in Oz in late 03 and hung out with lots of poms ( of which the female of the species tended to go topless a lot which dulled the pain ). We've all had tough times.

    "memories" might be better than scars 😉



  • Impossible to compare eras
     
    How for example do you compare today with Fred Allen's team.  Undefeated in 4 years. Changed the way the game was played at least as dramatically as current side.  Set world record against an all conquering Welsh side.
     
    Only played tier 1 nations when they were all competitive.
     
    Players included likes of Meads x2  Lochore Laidlaw Kirton Tremain Thorne MacRae Williment McCormick Kirkpatrick Gray Herewini Dick MacLeod
     
    But only played about 5-6 tests year although as said all were proper tests
     
    Current side would beat them by at least 50 points but if you look at it in terms of dominance at time, effect on way game was played, acknowledged best in world for their position, innovation - the parallels are there



  • For me this is the best era of my lifetime , 
     
    From the time Henry took over through to now , 
     
    Just think we have had all the ruthlessness to win that all the other great teams had , plus  skill levels  that the rest  would dream of



  • Yeah? I thought he was one of the first block busting 2nd fives that ran and hit really hard. I thought he was a bit of a star, but as you say it was a while ago. He was above average I reckon

    Sorry mate I realized in the dead of night that I was actually thinking of Arthur Stone.



  • Impossible to compare eras
     
    How for example do you compare today with Fred Allen's team.  Undefeated in 4 years. Changed the way the game was played at least as dramatically as current side.  Set world record against an all conquering Welsh side.
     
    Only played tier 1 nations when they were all competitive.
     
    Players included likes of Meads x2  Lochore Laidlaw Kirton Tremain Thorne MacRae Williment McCormick Kirkpatrick Gray Herewini Dick MacLeod
     
    But only played about 5-6 tests year although as said all were proper tests
     
    Current side would beat them by at least 50 points but if you look at it in terms of dominance at time, effect on way game was played, acknowledged best in world for their position, innovation - the parallels are there

    Good post and fair enough, those are the guys that helped build the All Blacks legacy. Without them we would not be where we are today.



  • If Bruce Robertson was playing today he would make a great Ben Smith. The centre position has changed somewhat and although his distribution skills were fantastic it was his eye for a gap and ability to get through the defensive line in slightly broken play that was his forte.
     
    Totally agree with those talking about management and coaching. In retrospect the 2007 quarter loss was possibly the best thing that could have happened to the ABs. It caused a major rethink of just how to do things and a major attitude shift among players. Throwing away the old ways of seniority equalling leadership etc. Shag has taken the reforms even further and the NZRU seem set on succession planning that continues to refine and expand rather than change with new coaching staff.
     
    I can see that although we face big challenges with a changing of the guard the systems put in place and forward planning will mean that although we may have the odd blip and lesson to learn we are well placed to continue being dominant while others try and chase us.



  • It's funny how times change , I remember going to Ardmore rugby club as a kid with the old man , Bruce Robertson s club, he was considered a big back then , about 6 foot 13 and a half stone .
    But on second thoughts if he was around now , with modern training techniques , they would probably put bulk on that frame like they did with Conrad and get him up to 95 kilos maybe .



  • It's funny how times change , I remember going to Ardmore rugby club as a kid with the old man , Bruce Robertson s club, he was considered a big back then , about 6 foot 13 and a half stone .
    But on second thoughts if he was around now , with modern training techniques , they would probably put bulk on that frame like they did with Conrad and get him up to 95 kilos maybe .

    There's still room for little backs in todays game if they're good enough. Cruden, Giteau, S Williams etc.



  • still shows how the game has evolved with the likes of Bert Cooke, have read one description of him as the Christian Cullen of his day (in the 20's), was a whopping 61.6kg, standing 1.75m tall, playing in the AB mid-field, also played league for the Kiwis.
     
    Just shows how much the game has changed and how it is difficult to compare players or yesteryear with current player, but hey, that's what fans do!



  • There's still room for little backs in todays game if they're good enough. Cruden, Giteau, S Williams etc.

    Not as little as they were back in the 1970s. People like Cruden and Aaron Smith are listed as being around 85kgs.
     
    Grant Batty (a Wellington wing) is listed at 70kgs. Mark Sayers (a Wellington 2nd five) played in the midfield at 71kgs.
     
    Times have changes - Wellington used to win things with Batty and Sayers.  🙂



  • I remember for quite awhile Emile Ntamack was Frances "big" back but even then he was under 100kg. I think things have petered off now, I don't see the likes of Nadolo, Tuilagi, Banahan etc becoming the "norm".....after all guys still have to be reasonably nimble as well which was also Jonahs weakness at times.


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