Pommy scrummaging



  • Aussies getting worked up again. Interesting article in Roar with overhead footage. Clear Poms conned French Poite once or twice. Quite noticeable how much Hartley has improved things. But one thing I haven't seen commented on is how Robshaw was not only heavily involved in Marler's angling but also in Cole's walking round the corner.
    Is that the stuff round the track no one sees?



  • Marler in shit for calling Dwyer a wanker on the back of something he said or wrote.
     
    Can you get in trouble for saying something factual?



  • The English have pushed the boundaries at the scrum for some years now and have been for the most part able to get away with it. Joe Marler was a shocker with his scrumming in at the angle, and as noted Robshaw was definitely in on the act.



  • Well firstly Marler did nothing to con Poite on account of he wasn't playing. However, point taken. Marler's scrimmaging has improved considerably but alas he is still not the world's best and nor does he seem to realise during a game if his antics are working or not. I have heard tell that many props are intelligent but Marler must bring the average down somewhat. I also have sympathy with those that suggest England push the boundaries at scrum time. Well, why not if you have an advantage and can increase that advantage without getting pinged too much. NTA mentioned on the Aus v England thread that Cole had conned Poite a bit and was full of admiration of a job well done. Seeing what you can get away with is all part of the game if not and everyone was squeaky clean why would we need assistant refs (rather than simply touch judges) and TMOs.
     
    Fact of rugby life. Live with it.



  • The exact same argument I always used for McCaw. (although we all know the GOAT never cheated - he was just awesome)



  • The reason I praised Cole in a way I wouldn't praise Marler, is because Cole showed (with the scrum that got Sio carded) that he CAN scrum. He's a good THP, but just flawed enough that he knows when to front up and when to play the joker.
     
    Marler has shown me nothing of the sort. He has been sideways from Day 1, and the thing that shit me about it is no-one ever called him out on it until we fucking destroyed them at RWC.



  • The reason I praised Cole in a way I wouldn't praise Marler, is because Cole showed (with the scrum that got Sio carded) that he CAN scrum. He's a good THP, but just flawed enough that he knows when to front up and when to play the joker.
     
    Marler has shown me nothing of the sort. He has been sideways from Day 1, and the thing that shit me about it is no-one ever called him out on it until we fucking destroyed them at RWC.

    Well YOU called him out on it often enough!
     
    There were a few others as well and there was a fair bit of reviewing of his scummaging on TV during the 6N of 2015. Overhead cameras etc. We could really do with Corbisiero back in scrummaging terms as this is not one of Mako V's real strengths either..



  • Fucking oath I did 😉 
     
    I think the move to bring Slipper and Kepu back in is to nullify Cole's craftiness, while attacking the shit out of Vunipola.



  • Agreed that Cole is smart operator, although under old rules was owned by Domingo. Sio seems to me to pack with his shoulders a few inches back from normal. Almost like he wanted Moore to take the [hit]. Leave it to front row club to explain.
    To me Corbisiero best English LH of last few years.





  • http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/scrum-analysis-brisbane-test/

    I was about to spit tea & then read this in the comments -
     
    This is pretty dubious. You've mentioned Sio's foot placement but haven't acknowledged the role this played in the collapsed scrums or the fact it resulted from poor set up. You don't mention that Sio was completely extended before the ball was put in. You mistaken effect for cause, for example stating Cole's bind changes from long to short and causes Sio's collapse when in fact Cole's hand clearly remains on the same part of Sio's shirt.
     
    Yup, Sio got his set wrong. He's at full stretch & can't hold himself up. He was trying to get a "hit" - which is very hard under the new laws, and Coles just sat back & let him drive off balance & straight into the dirt.



  • I was about to spit tea & then read this in the comments -
     
    This is pretty dubious. You've mentioned Sio's foot placement but haven't acknowledged the role this played in the collapsed scrums or the fact it resulted from poor set up. You don't mention that Sio was completely extended before the ball was put in. You mistaken effect for cause, for example stating Cole's bind changes from long to short and causes Sio's collapse when in fact Cole's hand clearly remains on the same part of Sio's shirt.
     
    Yup, Sio got his set wrong. He's at full stretch & can't hold himself up. He was trying to get a "hit" - which is very hard under the new laws, and Coles just sat back & let him drive off balance & straight into the dirt.

    That's what I saw too. Cole is no angel, and may even have been hinging at some points during the game, but I have no idea what Sio is doing. His feet are an absolute mile behind him and him eating turf is always a fairly likely result there.



  • http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/scrum-analysis-brisbane-test/

    But, but, surely the term is whinging poms?



  • Aussies hate anyone better at cheating than them!



  • I was about to spit tea & then read this in the comments -
     
    This is pretty dubious. You've mentioned Sio's foot placement but haven't acknowledged the role this played in the collapsed scrums or the fact it resulted from poor set up. You don't mention that Sio was completely extended before the ball was put in. You mistaken effect for cause, for example stating Cole's bind changes from long to short and causes Sio's collapse when in fact Cole's hand clearly remains on the same part of Sio's shirt.
     
    Yup, Sio got his set wrong. He's at full stretch & can't hold himself up. He was trying to get a "hit" - which is very hard under the new laws, and Coles just sat back & let him drive off balance & straight into the dirt.

    100% this. Sio was setting himself up in a position where the only way he could keep the scrum up was if Cole hit him hard on the engage and drove upwards. Cole recognised it and didn't give him the satisfaction; took a penalty or two before the ref realised but it was definitely Sio's bad positioning that kept him kissing the dirt.
     
    Of course, once the ref realised and warned them both, Sio moved his feet closer and Cole responded by smashing him on the engage and driving over the top for the yellow. Very smart prop play, from a guy I thought was on the verge of being replaced as England's tighthead. Showed the value of experience.
     
    The Aussie media seem to be chanting the mantra of 'boring in', which is nonsense as Cole was never in a position to attack the hooker. Will be interesting to see him versus Slipper at the weekend though.



  • I've seen a couple of aerial shots where the entire wallaby scrum is a mess, loose binds, locks poorly positioned, flankers barely hanging on. What changed from the World Cup?



  • The aerial camera is great for watching scrums, a pity we don't get it over in NZ.



  • I was about to spit tea & then read this in the comments -This is pretty dubious. You've mentioned Sio's foot placement but haven't acknowledged the role this played in the collapsed scrums or the fact it resulted from poor set up. You don't mention that Sio was completely extended before the ball was put in. You mistaken effect for cause, for example stating Cole's bind changes from long to short and causes Sio's collapse when in fact Cole's hand clearly remains on the same part of Sio's shirt.
    Yup, Sio got his set wrong. He's at full stretch & can't hold himself up. He was trying to get a "hit" - which is very hard under the new laws, and Coles just sat back & let him drive off balance & straight into the dirt.
    I can only hope that this disgusting play was punished with 3 points. Glad he eventually got yellowed. Getting your set up wrong needs to be driven out of the game.
    Whoop, whoop, holler, holler, fist pump, head rub! See ya later, loser.



  • Agreed that Cole is smart operator, although under old rules was owned by Domingo. Sio seems to me to pack with his shoulders a few inches back from normal. Almost like he wanted Moore to take the [hit]. Leave it to front row club to explain.
    To me Corbisiero best English LH of last few years.

    Typically your THP leads the engagement - shoulder line just ahead of the hooker, with hooker's shoulder line just ahead of the LHP.
     
    If both sides do it about the same, you get a clean engage regardless. We're talking a few cm in each case, and you can play funny buggers with this in order to disrupt the opposition.



  • But, but, surely the term is whinging poms?

    It's "analysis" from the same whiny pissbag every time the Wallabies lose.