Bastille day truck crash
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="598346" data-time="1469006164">
<div>
<p>There's zero difference, much of what makes Islam shithouse now runs very contrary to Muhammed. Same as with Jesus. J / M said or did "X". Died. Blokes later realised they needed to tweak it to get power. So tweaked. Shit like the way modern Islam treats women is a mile from Muhammed, eg "women can't work & must stay home & be subserviant!" v Mo marrying his employer & relying on her for advice & her business skills for money. Or marrying child brides to fuck now v Mo marrying 50 year old widows of his comanders to ensure they had the protection of a family.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Sorry, where did this historical revisionism come from? Or are we to all believe that he who can't be cartooned, out of benevolence as an illiterate warlord merely took a child into his family for her protection?</p> -
What role did France play in the Iraq war? Oh yes that's right, they were vehemently opposed to it. <br><br>
Perhaps you can also explain how the Charlie Hebdo massacre relates to the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or how about the murder of Theo Van Gogh? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="598379" data-time="1469018171">
<div>
<p>Sorry, where did this historical revisionism come from? Or are we to all believe that he who can't be cartooned, out of benevolence as an illiterate warlord merely took a child into his family for her protection?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Dude seriously, if you want to want to start posting authoritivly re Muhammed at least get some grounding.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>His first wife was 20 years older than him & he mostly married her because she provided protection & money - she was a successful business woman. Tho' there must have been somethying there as he stayed with her in an (aparent) monogomous relationship for 25 years. Then when she died he married a 55 year old chick who had been persecuted for being Muslim, then he very much droppped the ball & fucked a 10 year old. Theres a bit of an idea that he was tieing a closde ally (her dad) to him, but still, a fucked 10 year old is a fucked 10 year old. Tho' she did at least end up being probably his most influential wife & held a shitrton of power later.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The next 2 were widows of his comanders who needed protection.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So 1 out of 5 is probably better than most give him credit for...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Karen Armstrong wrtote a really good (short) bio of him a few years back -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.amazon.co.uk/Muhammad-Biography-Prophet-Karen-Armstrong/dp/1842126083'>https://www.amazon.co.uk/Muhammad-Biography-Prophet-Karen-Armstrong/dp/1842126083</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>I read it first time I went to Jordan to get a feel for the weirdness. Its pretty good.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598380" data-time="1469018759">
<div>
<p>What role did France play in the Iraq war? Oh yes that's right, they were vehemently opposed to it.<br><br>
Perhaps you can also explain how the Charlie Hebdo massacre relates to the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or how about the murder of Theo Van Gogh?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>france was in the war in afghanistan, which was against al qaeda, charlie hedbo was al qaeda.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>incidentally, drawing pictures of mohammed is not prohibited by the koran. so again, it isn't the book.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="598381" data-time="1469019088">
<div>
<p>Dude seriously, if you want to want to start posting authoritivly re Muhammed at least get some grounding.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>His first wife was 20 years older than him & he mostly married her because she provided protection & money - she was a successful business woman. Tho' there must have been somethying there as he stayed with her in an (aparent) monogomous relationship for 25 years. Then when she died he married a 55 year old chick who had been persecuted for being Muslim, then he very much droppped the ball & fucked a 10 year old. Theres a bit of an idea that he was tieing a closde ally (her dad) to him, but still, a fucked 10 year old is a fucked 10 year old. Tho' she did at least end up being probably his most influential wife & held a shitrton of power later.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The next 2 were widows of his comanders who needed protection.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So 1 out of 5 is probably better than most give him credit for...</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Karen Armstrong wrtote a really good (short) bio of him a few years back -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://www.amazon.co.uk/Muhammad-Biography-Prophet-Karen-Armstrong/dp/1842126083'>https://www.amazon.co.uk/Muhammad-Biography-Prophet-Karen-Armstrong/dp/1842126083</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>I read it first time I went to Jordan to get a feel for the weirdness. Its pretty good.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>You appear to know your Mo-shit G!!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="598382" data-time="1469020936">
<div>
<p>france was in the war in afghanistan, which was against al qaeda, charlie hedbo was al qaeda.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>incidentally, drawing pictures of mohammed is not prohibited by the koran. so again, it isn't the book.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>You think the Charlie Hebdo attack was because of French involvement in Afghanistan? How about this latest attack? Was that Afghanistan too?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Drawing pictures of Mohammed is not prohibited by the Koran, but it's quite clear that most Muslims regard it as a form of blasphemy. Not really sure what your point is here. Was the shit storm that erupted after a Danish paper published a few Motoons also because of Afghanistan and Iraq? The plots to kill Swedish citizen Lars Vilks were also due to those wars as well no doubt.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="598383" data-time="1469021515">
<div>
<p>You appear to know your Mo-shit G!!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Spent a lot of time in the Middle East & its a fricking facinating place, so I've made a point of reading books on the crusades while in Syria, or the various Iranian shit when in Iran. Its an utterly fucked region, but its facinating. I tried reading 7 Pillars of Wisdom (Lawrence of Arabia) but its a tough slog. Especially compared to reading a decent history of the Crusades or the CIA in the 1950's in the region.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He (Mo) is a genuinely interesting bloke, up there with Alexander or Ceaser in terms of doing shit & carry folks along. Most people are surprised re his first marriage. And to be fair re the 10 year old, christian europe were well & truely doing that too. Game of Thrones is right on the money with Sansa delivered to the Lanisters & then they are on "period watch" to see when she first bleeds so they can do the wedding & the consumation. That was the deal 500 years later in Europe among the noble (Christian) families. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598384" data-time="1469022699">
<div>
<p>You think the Charlie Hebdo attack was because of French involvement in Afghanistan? How about this latest attack? Was that Afghanistan too?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>The latest attacks are because France declared war on ISIS & bombed the fuck out of them. Which was in retalitation for ISIS attacking France... which was in response to France attacking AQ, which was in response to Charlie Hebdo, which was pretty much just because the nutters REALLY don't like that cartoon shit.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>France is in the firing line because</p>
<ul><li>it KEEPS doing the cartoon stuff (in contrast the New Yorker & Spectator not so much)</li>
<li>it has been heaviliy involved in almost every war on Islamists - not just ISIS & AQ, but a LOT in africa too - Mali for example, Libya</li>
<li>its got a MASSIVE legacy issue re Algeria, a huge number of people are very angry about that</li>
<li>and to cap it it allowed all its colonys to emigrate & then did zero to integrate them, and its colonys? - all Islamic. So it has an never ending resovoir of young pissed off, jobless guys with a chip on their shoulder looking for someone to tell them its not their fault (like you men the world over)</li>
<li>maybe add in its taken billions of funding from the gulf states to build stuff & support the shithouse French economy & fund PSG & so on. And all they ask in return is the right to build mega-mosques preaching the worst sort of Islam. Qatar makes the Taleban look like ametuers when it comes to exporting miliatant Islam</li>
</ul> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="598387" data-time="1469028240">
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>Spent a lot of time in the Middle East & its a fricking facinating place, so I've made a point of reading books on the crusades while in Syria, or the various Iranian shit when in Iran. Its an utterly fucked region, but its facinating. I tried reading 7 Pillars of Wisdom (Lawrence of Arabia) but its a tough slog. Especially compared to reading a decent history of the Crusades or the CIA in the 1950's in the region.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He (Mo) is a genuinely interesting bloke, up there with Alexander or Ceaser in terms of doing shit & carry folks along. Most people are surprised re his first marriage. And to be fair re the 10 year old, christian europe were well & truely doing that too. Game of Thrones is right on the money with Sansa delivered to the Lanisters & then they are on "period watch" to see when she first bleeds so they can do the wedding & the consumation. That was the deal 500 years later in Europe among the noble (Christian) families. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The latest attacks are because France declared war on ISIS & bombed the fuck out of them. Which was in retalitation for ISIS attacking France... which was in response to France attacking AQ, which was in response to Charlie Hebdo, which was pretty much just because the nutters REALLY don't like that cartoon shit.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>France is in the firing line because</p>
<ul><li>it KEEPS doing the cartoon stuff (in contrast the New Yorker & Spectator not so much)</li>
<li>it has been heaviliy involved in almost every war on Islamists - not just ISIS & AQ, but a LOT in africa too - Mali for example, Libya</li>
<li>its got a MASSIVE legacy issue re Algeria, a huge number of people are very angry about that</li>
<li>and to cap it it allowed all its colonys to emigrate & then did zero to integrate them, and its colonys? - all Islamic. So it has an never ending resovoir of young pissed off, jobless guys with a chip on their shoulder looking for someone to tell them its not their fault (like you men the world over)</li>
<li>maybe add in its taken billions of funding from the gulf states to build stuff & support the shithouse French economy & fund PSG & so on. And all they ask in return is the right to build mega-mosques preaching the worst sort of Islam. Qatar makes the Taleban look like ametuers when it comes to exporting miliatant Islam</li>
</ul><p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>In other words religion might just have something to do with it.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="598381" data-time="1469019088"><p>Dude seriously, if you want to want to start posting authoritivly re Muhammed at least get some grounding.</p></blockquote><br>Some grounding? What did I write that was wrong?<br> <br> <br><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote"><p>His first wife was 20 years older than him & he mostly married her because she provided protection & money - she was a successful business woman. Tho' there must have been somethying there as he stayed with her in an (aparent) monogomous relationship for 25 years. Then when she died he married a 55 year old chick who had been persecuted for being Muslim, then he very much droppped the ball & fucked a 10 year old. Theres a bit of an idea that he was tieing a closde ally (her dad) to him, but still, a fucked 10 year old is a fucked 10 year old. Tho' she did at least end up being probably his most influential wife & held a shitrton of power later.<br> <br>The next 2 were widows of his comanders who needed protection.<br> <br>So 1 out of 5 is probably better than most give him credit for...</p></blockquote><br><br>Call me old fashioned, but I don't give a fuck how many oldies you put a ring on if you're fucking a 10 year old. Particularly when a sizeable proportion of the world's population then use it as an ongoing excuse.
-
<p>but you fuck one kid....</p>
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="598481" data-time="1469070990">
<div>
<p>Some grounding? What did I write that was wrong?<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>
Call me old fashioned, but I don't give a fuck how many oldies you put a ring on if you're fucking a 10 year old. Particularly when a sizeable proportion of the world's population then use it as an ongoing excuse.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>So you're going to judge an author and a book written thousands of years ago by today's standards? Isn't that a bit like trying to live in today's world using a book written thousands of years ago as your literal guide?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="598517" data-time="1469080547"><p>So you're going to judge an author and a book written thousands of years ago by today's standards?</p></blockquote><br>WTF are you talking about? He didn't author any books.
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="598519" data-time="1469081779"><p>WTF are you talking about? He didn't author any books.</p></blockquote>OK he didn't write it, it was revealed to him by Gabriel. But you missed my main point
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rancid Schnitzel" data-cid="598384" data-time="1469022699">
<div>
<p>You think the Charlie Hebdo attack was because of French involvement in Afghanistan? How about this latest attack? Was that Afghanistan too?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Drawing pictures of Mohammed is not prohibited by the Koran, but it's quite clear that most Muslims regard it as a form of blasphemy. Not really sure what your point is here. Was the shit storm that erupted after a Danish paper published a few Motoons also because of Afghanistan and Iraq? The plots to kill Swedish citizen Lars Vilks were also due to those wars as well no doubt.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>that's not what you asked mate, you asked how they were related and they very clearly are.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>it obviously isn't simple cause and effect, but the iraq and afghanistan wars have done a massive amount to set up an islam vs the west dynamic, and surely you can see how easy that has made it to persuade someone susceptible that the west in general hates muslims and are the enemy? particularly someone poor, uneducated and in a country that is a fucking death trap mess?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>if all the terrorists were doing was trying to kill the people who have drawn cartoons of mohammed - while that would be fucking ridiculous - it wouldn't exactly be the number one issue in the world.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="598481" data-time="1469070990">
<div>
<p>Some grounding? What did I write that was wrong?<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>
Call me old fashioned, but I don't give a fuck how many oldies you put a ring on if you're fucking a 10 year old. Particularly when a sizeable proportion of the world's population then use it as an ongoing excuse.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>what he means is context. here's a bit from wikipedia on age of consent - not the new order song. it's all 600 years or so after mohammed, so a bit more progressive...</p>
<p> </p>
<p style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">In the 12th century, <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratian_(jurist)" title="Gratian (jurist)">Gratian</a>, the influential founder of <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_law' title="Canon law">canon law</a> in <a class="" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval" title="Medieval">medieval</a> Europe, accepted age of puberty for marriage to be around 12 (girls) and around 14 (boys) but acknowledged consent to be meaningful if the children were older than 7.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#cite_note-4'>[4]</a></sup> There were authorities that said that consent could take place earlier. Marriage would then be valid as long as neither of the two parties annulled the marital agreement before reaching puberty, or if they had already consummated the marriage. Judges sometimes honored marriages based on mutual consent at ages younger than 7: in contrast to established canon, there are recorded marriages of 2 and 3 year olds.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#cite_note-Encyclopedia_of_Children_and_Childhood_in_History_and_Society.2C_A-Ar.2C_Age_of_Consent-3'>[3]</a></sup></p>
<p style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">The first <i>recorded</i> age-of-consent law dates from 1275 in England; as part of its provisions on <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape' title="Rape">rape</a>, the <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Westminster_1275' title="Statute of Westminster 1275">Statute of Westminster 1275</a> made it a misdemeanor to "ravish" a "maiden within age," whether with or without her consent. The phrase "within age" was later interpreted by jurist Sir Edward Coke as meaning the age of marriage, which at the time was 12 years of age.<sup><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent#cite_note-Stephen_Robertson.2C_University_of_Sydney.2C_Australia-5'>[5]</a></sup></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="598525" data-time="1469083418">
<p>OK he didn't write it, it was revealed to him by Gabriel. But you missed my main point</p>
</blockquote>
<p> <br>
No I got your point.<br>
</p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="598535" data-time="1469085901">
<p>what he means is context.</p>
</blockquote>
<br><p>I'm well aware that attitudes to fucking children have changed over millennia, but I suggest you go back to <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/index.php/topic/42142-bastille-day-truck-crash/page-5#entry598379'>my post</a> and red the context.</p> -
<p>Here's todays terrorist outrage</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/82406459/munich-shooting-live-coverage'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/82406459/munich-shooting-live-coverage</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>On Merkels patch, the second one this week if you include the axe attack. You have to wonder how long the bizarre disconnect between what people like Merkel are saying and doing and what is actually happening in Germany and France etc causes a backlash against the establishment there like we saw with the brexit vote and Trumps popularity.</p>