Turkish Coup



  • Looks like Turkeys had another coup and Erdogan is seeking asylum in Germany, if true good bloody job.



  • Possibly the most significant geo political moment of the decade.

    No idea how it will turn out.



  • Well bang (sic) goes turkeys chances of EU membership. Totally agree baron so many potential ramifications



  • Looks like a failed coup.



  • Some crazy bullshit going on, like this helicopter laying down fire IN Ankara.



  • Looks like Turkeys had another coup and Erdogan is seeking asylum in Germany, if true good bloody job.

    In Germany? Looking for that comedian who made fun of him?



  • Nah the Germans turned him down , he might end up in Qatar.



  • I hear from various sources he's a right fluffybunny.



  • Images from Turkish TV showing soldiers being arrested by looks like police?



  • Pretty distressed looking blonde chick on TV but it's about 3am there



  • Both sides claiming to be doing this in the name of democracy. Yay



  • I have a tank , you have a stick. Prepare to get owned,



  • Any word from Rowan  and if this will affect the turkish 31 rwc bid?



  • Looks like the  coup failed and the goat shagger is on his way home, if true turkey is screwed now  as he'll purge  the military and they've bee the only real  force trying to keep the country secular.



  • Turkey has not been high in my consciousness:

    1. What's the reference to goats?
    2. From the above he's obviously Muslim what flavour? Sunny or Cher? Who doesn't he get on with in the region?


  • A german comedian was prosecute by the pathetic german  govt for mocking the Turkish leader   and a   British   magazine sponsored a competition for the best poem mocking Erdogan the Turkish pres. Erdogan is a piece  of human garbage   and deserves to be at the very least openly mocked.
     
    the winner was the new British foreign secretary   Boris Johnson with this
     
    There was a young fellow from Ankara
    Who was a terrific wankerer
    Till he sowed his wild oats
    With the help of a goat
    But he didn’t even stop to thankera.



  • i spoke to my mate in istanbul this arvo, about 4am their time. they were all awake with no real idea what was going on, but with jets flying around above the city etc. pretty fucked.



  • In just a matter of hours 200 dead and more than a 1000 injured.
    Social media was shut down and apparently there were claims of internet speeds being slowed down!
    Where to from here for the basket case that is Turkey? I fear that because the coup was thwarted, Erdogan will feel emboldened. He's driven by power and has been trying to enhance the executive powers of the President since he got elected 2 years ago.



  • Yeah he looks like a bit of a nutbar...



  • I have a tank , you have a stick. Prepare to get owned,

    Wasn't a Prius was it?



  • This is quite good,https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
    The people who took to the streets weren't necessarily supporting the goat molester but rather democracy.



  • This is quite good,https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
    The people who took to the streets weren't necessarily supporting the goat molester but rather democracy.

    r.“The most valuable outcome of last night’s events is that many people who are not AKP supporters stood up for democratic values despite the recent crackdowns on the opposition, and despite the tension and the polarisation of the country.”
    However, not everyone shared his optimism. “Everyone spoke out against the coup last night and that gave me hope,” said an academic who wished to remain anonymous. “But watching events unfold today this hope has shrunk quickly. Last night there was the possibility that the government would use this to return to a more unifying language, to return to the peace talks, to unite the country. But today it looks like they will use [the coup attempt] simply to consolidate power.”
    The academic said that the trauma of past military interventions, and not sympathy for the government, drove people to oppose Friday night’s bloody coup attempt.
    “These people do not support ErdoÄŸan, but they oppose the idea of a military coup. Turkey has a history of very painful, traumatic military interventions, so I was not surprised to see such united opposition to this attempt.”



  • This Gulen character is quite interesting.



  • Yeah was reading about him yesterday - Erdogan looks like a bit of a paranoid cock bag to be panicking over that. But you can see why they don't get on...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gülen_movementAfter the 2013 corruption investigations in Turkey into alleged corrupt practices by several bureaucrats, ministers, mayors, and family members of the rulingJustice and Development Party (AKP) of Turkey was uncovered,[5][6] PresidentRecep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan blamed the Movement for initiating[7] the investigations as a result of a break in previously friendly relations.[8]

    Turkey had Islam in it government in recent decades, which wasn't popular.
    The movement has been characterized as a "moderate blend of Islam."[12][13]Gülen and the Gülen movement are technology-friendly, work within current market and commerce structures, and are savvy users of modern communications public relations."[14] Within Turkey the Gülen movement keeps its distance from established Islamic political parties.[15]
    Sources state that the Gülen movement is vying to be recognized as the world's leading Muslim network, one that is more reasonable than many of its rivals.[16]The movement builds on the activities of Fethullah Gülen, who has won praise from non-Muslim quarters for his advocacy of science, interfaith dialogue, and multi-party democracy. It has earned praise as "the world's most global movement."[17]
    The exact number of supporters of the Gülen movement is not known as the movement has no official membership rolls; estimates vary from 1 million to 8 million.[18][19][20] The membership of the movement consists primarily of students, teachers, businessmen, academicians, journalists and other professionals.[3] Its members have founded schools, universities, an employers' association, charities, real estate trusts, student organizations, radio and television stations, and newspapers.[19]
    The movement's structure has been described as a flexible organizational network.[21] Movement schools and businesses organize locally and link themselves into informal networks.[22] The Gülen movement works within the given structures of modern secular states; it encourages affiliated members to maximize the opportunities those countries afford rather than engaging in subversive activities.[23]
    Critics have complained that members of the Gulen movement are overly compliant to the directions from its leaders.[24] The movement has been accused of being "missionary" in intent, organizing in clandestine ways, or aiming for political power.[25]



  • hard to know exactly what is going on there. erdogan appears to be horribly guilty of abusing the democratic process with his media manipulation. e.g. his government given a shitload of tv coverage during elections, opposition none - and his attempts to pass laws to expand the powers of his own position. there is widespread concern in turkey that he has been eroding secularism.
    this coup will no doubt be used by him to expand his powers further and remove as much opposition as possible. thousands of judges detained? christ surely we only have a couple of hundred in total in new zealand. madness.



  • Looks like the Gulen movement is heavily into the police force.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/turkish-police-fethullah-gulen-network



  • Stop that corruption and get back to old fashioned corruption, I say!



  • Pity it was unsuccessful.



  • Yeah now Erodgan is going to use it to start fucking shit up on a bigger scale.



  • Also - someone inside the military is now saying it was a setup by Erdogan to achieve just this purpose: get rid of resistance, rip through the ranks, and send a message to anyone else thinking he's not The Man.
     
    Sounds a bit like Joe Stalin, no? 🙂



  • Well bang (sic) goes turkeys chances of EU membership. Totally agree baron so many potential ramifications

    They had no chance anyway due to many factors, the not least of which is their position on Cyprus.



  • you might not agree with his position, but there's a lot of information in this article
     
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/middle_east/turkey-failed-coup-real-or-fake/



  • you might not agree with his position, but there's a lot of information in this article
     
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/middle_east/turkey-failed-coup-real-or-fake/

    In the case of Turkey, this particular failed coup was either orchestrated to fail as a means to solidify ultimate power or we are witnessing the coming clash between Islamic and freedom of region rule in Turkey. That ultimate confrontation is due in 2023 (two 51.6-year cycles from 1920).
     
    Whether the coup was fake is immaterial given it failed. The end result is the same with Endrogan solidifying power. Most pretence at a democracy has disappeared. Given the geo-political pressures of the last 50 years, it was inevitable that Turkey would be the litmus paper for a large Muslim population maintaining a secular rule. That's why they needed to be included in the EU - raise the standard of living.



  • http://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/the-age-of-no-returns

    The Implications of the Coup in Turkey
    Mid-afternoon on Friday in the US (late evening in Turkey), we started to receive reports that tanks were deploying in Istanbul and two bridges over the Bosporus had been closed by Turkish Army troops. A bit later, we got reports that armor had been deployed in Ankara, Turkey’s capital, and that there was fighting going on between Turkish Army special forces and national police around the parliament. Turkish F-16s were seen in large numbers in the skies. A military coup was underway.
    Military coups were fairly common in the world thirty or forty years ago. Turkey itself last had a coup in 1980. Having a full-dress coup, with tanks in the streets and government buildings under attack, seemed archaic. Yet here it was. For us, it was a complete surprise. True, the Army was Turkey’s institutional guarantee of secularism. Kemal Ataturk’s post-World War I revolution was dedicated to secularism, to the point that head scarves on Muslim women were banned for decades. When the AKP, Recep Erdogan’s party, won the election of 2003 and pledged to speak for devout Muslims’ interests, a clash with the Army was inevitable. Erdogan managed this challenge with surprising skill and even ease. He first blocked and then broke the Army’s power. In spite of grumblings, and some arrests over coups that never quite happened, Erdogan made the military subordinate to his wishes.
    Yet here were tanks in the street. Somehow, certainly out of our sight – and out of the sight of people who now say they always knew it was coming – a coup had been organized. Organizing a coup is not easy. It has to be carefully planned many weeks before. Many thousands of troops, as well as tanks, helicopters, and all the rest, must suddenly and decisively appear in the streets and take over. And all of this planning has to take place in complete secrecy, because without the element of surprise there is no coup.
    This began our first conversation: How did the military organize a coup without a word of it leaking? Turkey’s security and intelligence services are professional and capable, and watching the military is one of their major jobs. A coup requires endless meetings and preparation. In this day of intrusive surveillance, how did the military keep its intentions under wraps?

     
    
    Like what you’re reading? Subscribe now and receive the full version of John Mauldin's Thoughts from the Frontline delivered to your inbox each week. Subscribe Now
    Already have an account? Click here to log-in.
    We never share your email with third parties.
    

    The only explanation we could find is that the intelligence organizations must have been in on it. If so, then the game was over for Erdogan. A source we had in the military, someone fairly senior, said he had no idea the coup was happening. He did know that Erdogan was at a hotel in Marmaris, on the Mediterranean. The coup was planned while Erdogan was away from Ankara and it would be easy to isolate and arrest him. Perfect planning, without a leak.
     
    A few hours after the coup began, troops loyal to the coup makers entered some television studios and newspaper offices and had broadcasters announce that a coup had taken place and that the traditional secular principles of Kemal Ataturk had been restored. Since we had been told by our sources that the coup was being run by very senior officers (though not the chief of staff), it appeared to us that it had succeeded. Erdogan was being held in a resort town, apparently unable to return to Istanbul or Ankara, as airports were held by the military. The communication centers had been secured. There were even troops in Taksim Square, the major gathering place in Istanbul, which meant the city was saturated. The coup looked as if it was nearing its end. 
    Then suddenly everything changed. Erdogan started making statements via FaceTime on Turkish TV NTV. Well, instead of Erdogan’s being arrested, as we’d been led to believe, maybe it was just that troops were outside his hotel, and he was still free enough to do this. Sloppy work on the part of the coup. Then Erdogan got on a plane and flew in to Istanbul’s Ataturk Airport, which had reportedly been secured by the military conducting the coup. Again, sloppy work. It was clear that Erdogan was free, because he was making threats. Then we got reports of Turkish troops surrendering to policeman in Taksim Square, and the bridges that had been closed were abandoned by troops and reopened. Erdogan ordered loyal F-16s to shoot down helicopters attacking the parliament building in Ankara.
    The situation morphed from business as usual to a successful coup to a failed coup in a matter of hours. And we still had no explanation as to why the people staging the coup hadn’t been detected by the intelligence services.
    It is time for “tin foil.” We could speculate that Erdogan wanted the coup. He knew he could defeat it, and the attempt now gives him the justification to utterly purge the army. Perhaps he went to Marmaris for his own security. Then, as I write this, there are reports from the Greek military that a Turkish frigate was seized by Turkish troops opposed to Erdogan, that the Turkish Navy’s commanding officer was being held hostage, and that Erdogan had sent a text urging all Turks into the streets. The coup is either over, or it’s not. The coup planners either evaded detection, or they were allowed to walk into Erdogan’s trap. All that will become clearer in the next few hours. I write this Saturday morning, and John will send it out a few hours later to you as part of his letter.
    But there are deeper meanings and geopolitical implications of the coup attempt. We know that there are deep tensions between Turkey’s secular population, centered in Istanbul and long grounded and comfortable in Ataturk’s philosophy, and Erdogan’s more religious supporters in Anatolia and elsewhere. (Anatolia is the rather vast, less densely populated, region east of the Bosporus and is generally more conservative but also includes a large Kurdish region and a few other minority ethnic groups.)
    These religious minorities of Anatolia had been marginalized since World War I. Erdogan came to power intending to build a new Turkey. He understood that the Islamic world had changed, that Islam was rising, and that Turkey could not simply remain a secular power. He understood that domestically and in terms of foreign policy. There have been persistent reports that Turkey is at least allowing IS to use its financial system, selling its oil in Turkey, and moving its people through Turkey. Erdogan has been, until recently, reluctant to attack them. He shifted his strategy in recent months, resulting in IS attacks on Turkey, apparently in retaliation.
    Erdogan is caught between two forces. One is a Jihadist faction that it seems he has tried to manage, to deflect it from hitting Turkey. This effort has put him at odds with the United States and Russia simultaneously. He has also been under pressure from a domestic secular faction appalled by his strategy. Recently the strategy shifted. He reopened relations with Israel and apologized to Russia. He got rid of what many saw as a pro-Islamist prime minister. He appeared to be trying to rebalance his policy. The people who staged the coup likely saw these moves as weakness and sensed an opening.

     
    
    Like what you’re reading? Subscribe now and receive the full version of John Mauldin's Thoughts from the Frontline delivered to your inbox each week. Subscribe Now
    Already have an account? Click here to log-in.
    We never share your email with third parties.
    

    It should be remembered that Turkey has become the critical country in its greater region. It is the key to any suppression of IS in Syria and even in Iraq. It is the pivot point of Europe’s migrant policy. It is challenging Russia in the Black Sea. The United States needs Turkey, as it has since World War II; and Russia can’t afford a confrontation with it. Neither country likes Erdogan, but it is not clear that either country has options. Interestingly, the Russian foreign minister, Lavrov, and the US Secretary of State, John Kerry, were having marathon meetings on Syria as the coup was taking place.
     
    The room for conspiracy theories is endless now, because there actually were conspiracies – and likely conspiracies within conspiracies. So let’s end with the obvious. Turkey affects the Middle East, Europe, and Russia. It is also a significant force in shaping jihadist behavior. Erdogan has been increasingly erratic in his behavior, as if trying to regain his balance. The coup meant that some within the military thought he was vulnerable. His supporters are now trying to reestablish control.
    The coup appears over, but the repercussions of follow-on actions are not. Erdogan will unleash as much political intimidation as he can and conduct political and military purges to frighten the military. However, reigns of terror don’t work well if they frighten men with guns, making them feel they have nothing to lose by fighting back. There is no evidence that major military formations came to Erdogan’s aid. The military seems divided among those who staged the coup, those who were neutral, and the national police who backed Erdogan. Though Erdogan is a master of appearing stronger than he is, he looked weak calling for people to come into the streets to demonstrate their support. But he can’t afford to look weak, so he has to make a decisive countermove. If he can.




Log in to reply