All Time ODI XI



  • I am off work today so I thought I would post an idea I have been running with for a a while now - see what you think
     
    Selecting a all test side isn’t all that much fun.  Nobody here has ever seen Bradman play and very few will ever have seen the likes Sobers in action.  Also you can put the best eleven players on the field and you know that they would be good. 
     
    Nearly all the greats have played in our lifetime (or at least on television) and you can structure your teams differently to get the same result.  Below is my attempt at the best ODI XI of all time.
     
    RULES – This team is designed to play today with today’s laws.  That means that tactically the team is looking to build a innings to launch from for the last 20 overs.  It also means that it cannot afford to have bit part bowlers making up the 5th bowling spot.
    Tactically I have gone with five frontline bowlers as a change bowler just goes for too many runs the way ODI cricket is being played these days.  At the same time you don’t want to be 200 for 5after forty overs  and then limp your way to 280, so bowling all-rounders.  This tactical decision means that some very good players will miss out.
     
    Sachin Tendulkar
    One of the easiest selections for this team.  Hold just about every batting record worth holding in this format.  Could also chip in with a handy over of two to give the captain room to juggle the frontline bowlers around.
    Hashim Amla
    The first controversial selection for this team.  Others like Gilchrist and Lara have legitimate claims to be here ahead of him.  I have excluded Gilchrist and Jayasuriya not because they weren’t very very good, but because I don’t think they fit the tactics of my team.  I am looking for an opener that will score heavily and get the team to 100 for not many as often as possible, and my word is Amla good at doing that.  In nearly 40% of his innings he will score 50 or more.  And when does score 50 or more he score them very quickly.  As brilliant as the other candidates are, they can’t match him for consistency.
    Viv Richard
    Another easy selection.  In the 80’s Vivian Richards was playing a different game to the rest of cricketing world.  His strike rate of 91 was almost a run an over better than anyone else playing the game (with one exception) and his average of 48 was also the highest of anyone with a decent number of runs to their name.  Apparently also good fielder and more than handy off spin option.
    Ricky Ponting
    Another tough selection.  In the end this spot could have gone to a legend like Lara or Sangakara or up and coming star like Kohli or Williamson.   In  terms of their records they are inseparable, but Ponting wins out on the basis that he was the dominant batsman in the dominant team of his era.  Also one of the greatest fielders to play the game, which also worth another 10 or fifteen runs to his team compared to the others.
     AB de Villiers
    Whether he comes in at 80 for 3 or 180 for 3 he is able to play the right innings for the situation.  He can literally play any type of innings whether it needling the ball around for ten overs or smashing a hundred of 16 balls.  Even in this batsman friendly time he is statistical marvel with an average of almost 55 at a run a ball.  Also a very good fielder.
    MS Dhoni (WK)
    In this sort of team your wicket keeper will have to be a very good batsman and Dhoni makes it more for his batting than his keeping ability.  As batsman you have compare him to other great closers (Bevan and Hussey some to mind).  I am sure there is way of comparing them statistically but in terms of viewing them all, Dhoni was the most intimidating.  No matter the situation (when chasing) you always felt Dhoni would get his team home somehow.  He also seemed to be able to hit bigger than the other designated closers.
    Kapil Dev
    Probably the toughest selection in the team.  Kapil Dev is not the statistical equal of Imran Kahn, Flintoff, Klusener or Symonds, but I think he matches the needs of this team perfectly.  I excluded Klusener and Symonds because I simply don’t think they good enough bowlers to bowl ten overs every match without getting tonked around and any extra runs they might score are unlikely to make up that (in this team).  Flintoff is statistically brilliant but doesn’t have aura that you need for this sort of team and even at his brief peak didn’t shout world beater the way the others have.  When you compare Kapil Dev and Imran Kahn it hard not to conclude that Imran was the better bowler and marginally better bat, but for it comes down to the role in the team. 
    At a time when four runs to an over was considered brisk, Kapil Dev was striking at over a run a ball (he did stick around too long and took a bit of dip late in his career).   And while he didn’t take as many wickets as Imran, he was very frugal in his economy rate which will be very handy in building pressure in this sort of game. 
    Shaun Pollock
    Not as good as McGrath could easily be the Pollock’s career summary.  That is both accurate and a little unfair.  There is no doubt that McGrath ended up the greater bowler.  McGrath was better for longer and consequently ended up with more wickets at a better average and strike-rate.  But for a very long time there was very little between the two of them with Pollock’s average bouncing around the 19-21 range for most of his career until injuries robbed him of his pace.  Where McGrath can’t compete is in terms of his batting.  His average of 26 is probably a bit low given his talents, but he was a very dependable lower order batsman.
    Wasim Akram
    One of the most skillful bowlers to play the game able to bowl any type of delivery.  Being lefty also adds a nice bit variety in the team.  A specialist at bowling at the death only really matched by his teammate Waqar Younis.  Trumps Waqar on the basis of being better for longer and being a much better batsman, something that might be critical in a tight game where you need when 7 down with a couple of overs left to play.
    Joel Garner
    This one is straight shoot out between McGrath and Big Bird.  It is basically a coin flip between the two.  Proponents of McGrath will harp on about the more favourable bowling conditions Garner enjoyed and Garners relatively short career.  Both are valid, but Garner was so dominant during his career (averaging under 19) that you can’t hold those things against him.  What tips it in Garner’s favour for me is that comes across as a little more hostile by all accounts.  Could easily have gone the other way though.
    Muttaih Muralitharan
    The team obviously needs a spinner and Murali took so many wickets and in combination with Pollock and Kapil Dev would simply strangle any batting team to death.
     
     
    Looking at the team two things stand out – I must clearly be biased for having three South Africans in the team when South Africa has hardly been great at this format (in fact they are the only ones with a world cup winning medal in the team). 
    Secondly I must be biased against Australia with only one player from their great 2000’s team making the side.  It is interesting how close many of that team actually go to selection.  One could easily replace Amla with Gilchrist, Dhoni with Bevan and McGrath with any of Garner, Kapil Dev or Pollock but all those selections went against the Australians by very small margins.



  • Only thing I'd change would be, as you say, Imran in for Kapil. But I can see your point.



  • Fun thread. I like your team, even if you excluded a couple of my favourites.
    I'll play along tomorrow when I should be working



  • Why not use AB as your WK and include another batting all-rounder?  Kallis, for example.  A pity there isn't a lefty in your top order for variety.  The obvious choices would be Bevan or Hussey.



  • We did some pretty awesome threads on all time NZ teams a while back, the balance of the ODI team was heavily debated as you can throw in quite a few all-rounders, whereas the test team was pretty settled.
     
    I'll have a crack later but I would struggle to leave Kohli out of any all time ODI team. He is phenomenal in the shorter forms.



  • Why not use AB as your WK and include another batting all-rounder?  Kallis, for example.  A pity there isn't a lefty in your top order for variety.  The obvious choices would be Bevan or Hussey.

    I rate Dhoni as a better batsman than Kallis in ODIs and with three fast medium right hand pacers in the team already I don't think Kallis' bowling would add much.
     
    Interesting observation about the lack of left handers.  Might be an argument in favour of Gilchrist or Lara, but I can't see Bevan or Hussey supplanting any of the players for the roles they have been picked for.

    We did some pretty awesome threads on all time NZ teams a while back, the balance of the ODI team was heavily debated as you can throw in quite a few all-rounders, whereas the test team was pretty settled.
     
    I'll have a crack later but I would struggle to leave Kohli out of any all time ODI team. He is phenomenal in the shorter forms.

    Kohli would be in line for Ponting's position in the team.  Interestingly, when compared with his contemporaries, Kohli misses out based on his strike-rate (~85) which by my very rough view puts him in the league of Dean Jones, Abbas, Lara and Sangakara in estimation.  In truth the number four spot could go to any of about five different players.  Maybe Kohli will separate himself from the pack as his career develops..



  • Only thing I'd change would be, as you say, Imran in for Kapil. But I can see your point.

    Yeah I don't like that decision either.
     
    Lara and Sangukara should be there but hard to say exactly where.



  • M Waugh
    Gilchrist
    Sangakarra
    Lara
    Kallis
    Afridi
    Bevan
    Khan
    Warne
    Ambrose
    McGrath
     
    My team to play your team, using only players you didn't select. Gilly to go after it. Waugh, Sanga, Lara, and Kallis to set it up (still at a decent clip), Afridi and Khan to give it a lash at the death, Bevan to steer us around if we are in trouble.
     
    4 genuine wicket takers, the other 10 to be shared between Kallis and the part timers.



  • Too many Jaapies, Sid.   🙂
     
    Usual problems of comparing across eras - in the 1980s 220 was a par score, these days it's 280 - so you probably need to knock at least 10 runs off today's top order batsmen's averages to compare them with batsmen in the 1980s. That's not entirely fair, because players today have simply got better at playing the game - Sir Viv would have to learn to play the ramp shot and the reverse sweep, or conversely today's batsmen would have to abandon them because they barely had helmets and visors when ODI cricket first kicked off.
     
    On Amla - he's fashioned a superb record, but he doesn't scream "all time best" to me - a tier down as a very good player. To not put too fine a point on it, a team with two of the six best all time batsmen doesn't get knocked out by New Zealand in a World Cup semi.
     
    On Pollock - well, he's probably part of the conversation, but for me Imram walks into the team ahead of both him and Kapil. Imran became a genuine specialist batsman as well as being a deadly bowler - Kapil more a bowler who could bat and hit massively - never had the genuine pace of Imran.
     
    In fact, for the four great 80s allrounders I think most would rank them as bowlers: Hadlee, Imran, Kapil, Botham*; as batsmen Botham*, Imran, Kapil, Hadlee.
     
    Botham comes with an asterisk because he really had two careers - the first where he was fucking good and the second where he was a bit shit, really - injuries and a bad attitude. Imran sort of did too, in that he converted himself from a deadly pace bowler to a middle order batsman. It's possible that Imran at his peak was a marginally better bowler than Hadlee at his peak - but Sir Paddles never really faded and should also be part of the conversation.
     
    On Murali, a marginally better bowling record than Warne, but a significantly worse batsman. Applying the logic in selecting Pollock, you'd surely also select Warnie? 
     
    Edit: Bevan warrants a place - he was phenomenal in his day.



  • I'd pick Hadlee - excellent economy rate, great tactical thinker, more than capable of scoring quick runs at the end and an underrated fielder.



  • M Waugh
    Gilchrist
    Sangakarra
    Lara
    Kallis
    Afridi
    Bevan
    Khan
    Warne
    Ambrose
    McGrath
     
    My team to play your team, using only players you didn't select. Gilly to go after it. Waugh, Sanga, Lara, and Kallis to set it up (still at a decent clip), Afridi and Khan to give it a lash at the death, Bevan to steer us around if we are in trouble.
     
    4 genuine wicket takers, the other 10 to be shared between Kallis and the part timers.

    That team is not exactly shit M4L. Afridi and Bevan could swap positions depending on  the situation ( if you need to rebuild or smash ) and you could put the house of one of numbers 3-5 getting a massive individual score. I was tempted to suggest Dravid but his ODI record is pretty ordinary ( 12 hundreds in 344 matches ) which surprised me, no way he gets in ahead of Kallis. Gilly and Sangakarra both automatic picks if you don't have the option of Dhoni.
     
    I was thinking perhaps Gayle over M Waugh ( one all time favourite for another ) but in terms of an opening combo Gilly and Afghanistan were out of this world on their day. Would be nice to see Bond or Hadlee in there although for whom I don't know considering that bowling line up.....
     
    As an aside can I nominate Imran Khan as, dare I say it, an "underrated" player ? his cricketing stats are out of this world, he comfortably beats the other three all rounders of his era.



  • So now you fuckers have had your picks it's my turn.....( with what is left so this is essentially a third 11 )
     
    Matthew Hayden
    Chris Gayle
    Dean Jones
    Javed Miandad 
    Shivnarine Chanderpaul
    Ian Botham
    Brendon McCullum ( c and wk )
    Richard Hadlee
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Dale Steyn
    Waqar Younis
     
    Lightening pace and intimidation from Steyn and Younis with Paddles being a slightly more steadying influence bowling as first change. Spin from Mushtaq ( I may not get the choice of Warnie or Murali but google this blokes record ). Beefy and Gayle to share the remaining overs ( my team does lack bowling options up top ). It's definitely a "wicket taking" as opposed to "containing" line up so that is a bit of a risk I'll admit but can easily picture those three quicks tearing through a line up.
     
    Two big hitting left handers to open the batting with numbers 3-5 set to score big and at a reasonable pace. Beefy and McCullum ( feels funny having him in the team but without Gilly, Dhoni, Sanga and De Villiers I genuinely couldn't think of anyone better and to be honest whilst a few of his teammates have captained their countires none did so better than he did so he gets the nod ) to provide the fireworks with able support from Paddles. I think I have a perfect balance of hitters and more steady players in the batsmen although the tail is potentially slightly suspect especially by todays standards.



  • You've pipped me with your third XI MN5 - we need to be a bit creative....a bit of overlap, but nonetheless....
     
    Virender Sehwag
    Gordon Greenidge
    Dean Jones
    Virat Kohli
    Javed Miandad
    Brendon McCullum
    Richard Hadlee
    Andy Roberts
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Dennis Lillee
    Waqar Younis
     
    None of you gonna score enough runs from my attack!   🙂



  • Are we really saying Bondy doesn't make the top 3 all time XI's? He didn't play a huge number of games but he was pretty fucking unstoppable, regularly rolling the top sides in the world and made the much feared Aussie batting lineup his bitches on more then one occasion.



  • You've pipped me with your third XI MN5 - we need to be a bit creative....a bit of overlap, but nonetheless....
     
    Virinder Sehwag
    Gordon Greenidge
    Dean Jones
    Virat Kohli
    Javed Miandad
    Brendon McCullum
    Richard Hadlee
    Andy Roberts
    Saqlain Mushtaq
    Dennis Lillee
    Waqar Younis
     
    None of you gonna score enough runs from my attack!   🙂

    Shit, the two Indians who's names start with V are glaring omissions from my team.
     
    Just googled Andy Roberts, he had an excellent ODI record, arguments could also be made for Michael Holding too but, strangely, whilst Malcolm Marshall would be a genuine contender for the more prestigious title of all time Test XI his ODI record means he doesn't feature amongst the very best, he averaged nearly 27 in the shorter form.



  • Kohli would be in line for Ponting's position in the team.  Interestingly, when compared with his contemporaries, Kohli misses out based on his strike-rate (~85) which by my very rough view puts him in the league of Dean Jones, Abbas, Lara and Sangakara in estimation.  In truth the number four spot could go to any of about five different players.  Maybe Kohli will separate himself from the pack as his career develops..

    Good points and fair enough. I thought his strike rate was higher TBH. I think by the end of his career he'll be hard to leave out.



  • Are we really saying Bondy doesn't make the top 3 all time XI's? He didn't play a huge number of games but he was pretty fucking unstoppable, regularly rolling the top sides in the world and made the much feared Aussie batting lineup his bitches on more then one occasion.

    I agree and I loved Bondy but I guess his career was too short to get a mention ?



  • So many great possibilities to pick for this.
     
    Sir Paddles is in my team, even if he's batting #10 or #11



  • One we have all overlooked is one D Vettori. Dan was a fucking great limited overs spinner, and contributor of (ugly) lower order runs



  • One we have all overlooked is one D Vettori. Dan was a fucking great limited overs spinner, and contributor of (ugly) lower order runs

    Definitely a contender but not ahead of the other guys mentioned already and always surprised me how ordinary his batting was overall in ODIs compared to how good he eventually got in tests. I did think of him initially as an option for my team but Mushtaq had some sensational figures.



  • Definitely a contender but not ahead of the other guys mentioned already and always surprised me how ordinary his batting was overall in ODIs compared to how good he eventually got in tests.

    Yeah but fuck this is an NZ site so let's show a bit of bias eh? Fuck we would if this was an all time rugby team, there'd barely be a player from another country selected.



  • So many great possibilities to pick for this.
     
    Sir Paddles is in my team, even if he's batting #10 or #11

    You'd be hard pressed to better an opening combo of Paddles and Bond.



  • NQ is right!
     
    Dan, Bondy, Baz, Kane and the Hairy Javelin go straight in to my team! Up the Black Caps!



  • Yeah but fuck this is an NZ site so let's show a bit of bias eh? Fuck we would if this was an all time rugby team, there'd barely be a player from another country selected.

    I chose Paddles and Baz. My work is done.
     
    Would it help if I said Justin Vaughan narrowly missed out on an all rounder spot ?



  • I chose Paddles and Baz. My work is done.

    Me too and I seriously considered Martin Crowe and vaguely considered Danny and Kane.
     
    Kumble was probably the next spinner off the rank, but he's a little way behind Saqlain.
     
    Baz was in a battle with Andy Flower - since those picking the first and second elevens seemed to need to pick two keepers each - presumably because none of them were superb technicians and they might need someone to take over the gloves.  🙂



  • Yeah but fuck this is an NZ site so let's show a bit of bias eh? Fuck we would if this was an all time rugby team, there'd barely be a player from another country selected.

    Maybe one on the bench for the sake of tokenism...



  • Me too and I seriously considered Martin Crowe and vaguely considered Danny and Kane.
     
    Kumble was probably the next spinner off the rank, but he's a little way behind Saqlain.
     
    Baz was in a battle with Andy Flower - since those picking the first and second elevens seemed to need to pick two keepers each - presumably because none of them were superb technicians and they might need someone to take over the gloves.   🙂

    It's pretty tough to substantiate but as a pure keeper surely before giving it away Baz was as good if not better than all of Gilly, Sanga, Dhoni and ABDV ? ( obviously overall batting isn't worth comparing )
     
    I remember reading a sporting magazine a few years back that picked an all time Aus ODI team and both Gilly AND Healy made it which indicates to me the former wasn't the best gloveman. If I was picking Healy wouldn't have a shitshow.....



  • 1- Too many Jaapies, Sid.   🙂
     
    2- Usual problems of comparing across eras - in the 1980s 220 was a par score, these days it's 280 - so you probably need to knock at least 10 runs off today's top order batsmen's averages to compare them with batsmen in the 1980s. That's not entirely fair, because players today have simply got better at playing the game - Sir Viv would have to learn to play the ramp shot and the reverse sweep, or conversely today's batsmen would have to abandon them because they barely had helmets and visors when ODI cricket first kicked off.
     
    3- On Amla - he's fashioned a superb record, but he doesn't scream "all time best" to me - a tier down as a very good player. To not put too fine a point on it, a team with two of the six best all time batsmen doesn't get knocked out by New Zealand in a World Cup semi.
     
    4- On Pollock - well, he's probably part of the conversation, but for me Imram walks into the team ahead of both him and Kapil. Imran became a genuine specialist batsman as well as being a deadly bowler - Kapil more a bowler who could bat and hit massively - never had the genuine pace of Imran.
     
    In fact, for the four great 80s allrounders I think most would rank them as bowlers: Hadlee, Imran, Kapil, Botham*; as batsmen Botham*, Imran, Kapil, Hadlee.
     
    Botham comes with an asterisk because he really had two careers - the first where he was fucking good and the second where he was a bit shit, really - injuries and a bad attitude. Imran sort of did too, in that he converted himself from a deadly pace bowler to a middle order batsman. It's possible that Imran at his peak was a marginally better bowler than Hadlee at his peak - but Sir Paddles never really faded and should also be part of the conversation.
     
    5- On Murali, a marginally better bowling record than Warne, but a significantly worse batsman. Applying the logic in selecting Pollock, you'd surely also select Warnie? 
     
    Edit: Bevan warrants a place - he was phenomenal in his day.

    1- Guilty as charged
     
    2- The way I have tried to look at it is by comparing players to their contemporaries, otherwise the you would end up with a batting line-up from 2010 and bowling line-up 1980.  But it also makes it fun as every position becomes far more debatable. 
     
    3- As disappointing as our WC record is and even with with point two above, you simply can't ignore the sheer weight of runs he has has scored.  Look at this stat to get an idea of his run scoring record.  As I said, I am not looking to select the best players, I am looking to select a team to play the game as it is being played today - http://www.howstat.com.au/cricket/Statistics/Batting/BattingBestAfterXInnings_ODI.asp?Stat=1
     
    4- I am too young to have seen Kapil Dev or Kahn play so I am dependent on their records and accounts from people who did see them.  In terms of Bowling record there is really nothing between them.  In terms of average and strike rate Imran just shades Kapil Dev, while Kapil Dev has marginally better economy rate and much better aggregate numbers.  Kapil Dev is selected for his batting role, in this team he would fulfill the role that Faulkner fulfilled for the Aussies in the last world cup of coming in an hitting 40 of 25 balls.  In that role Kapil Dev is much much stronger Imran.
     
    5- Murali bats at number 11, I don't think his batting makes a jot of difference.  If you want to argue that Warne is a better player for his batting (his record is actually quite poor averaging 13 with the bat), then go ahead, but in this team he won't get in ahead of Wasim Akram as a bowler that can bat so has to make it as pure bowler, where as you say, Murali is better. Edit- Mustaq would actually be my next cab off the rank for the spinner spot, phenomenal record.



  • It's pretty tough to substantiate but as a pure keeper surely before giving it away Baz was as good if not better than all of Gilly, Sanga, Dhoni and ABDV ? ( obviously overall batting isn't worth comparing )
     
    I remember reading a sporting magazine a few years back that picked an all time Aus ODI team and both Gilly AND Healy made it which indicates to me the former wasn't the best gloveman. If I was picking Healy wouldn't have a shitshow.....

    I think Baz was probably the best in thew world for a while - he was a bloody good keeper. As was Healy - but, we can fail him on a no dickheads policy!  🙂
     
    Actually, Heals didn't score enough runs particularly for my team which is a bit light on batting with Baz at six.



  • Without trying to do fourth XI there are a couple players that deserve a mention that are being overlooked here
     
    Andrew Symonds - Was fantastic for time as slogger, handy change bowler and awesome fielder.
     
    Lance Klusener - Statistically one of the greatest all-rounders with an average of over forty with the bat and under thirty with the ball.  And who can forget his heroics at 1999 wc.
     
    Brett Lee - Check out his stats, he was far better ODI bowler than test bowler and a genuine strike bowler. something my team is a little short on.
     
    Mitchel Starc - Scores very highly in terms "better than his peers" rating.  If he can keep up his current form for a another 100 games he will crack my first eleven as designated strike bowler.
     
    Zaheer Abbas - 



  • 4- I am too young to have seen Kapil Dev or Kahn play so I am dependent on their records and accounts from people who did see them.  In terms of Bowling record there is really nothing between them.  In terms of average and strike rate Imran just shades Kapil Dev, while Kapil Dev has marginally better economy rate and much better aggregate numbers.  Kapil Dev is selected for his batting role, in this team he would fulfill the role that Faulkner fulfilled for the Aussies in the last world cup of coming in an hitting 40 of 25 balls.  In that role Kapil Dev is much much stronger Imran.

    I guess it's all reasonably subjective, so I won't argue too hard.
     
    On Amla, I guess statistically it's pretty hard to argue because you can just point to this:
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/records/282911.html
     
    On the other hand, we could smugly be arguing that we've got three of the best 26 ODI batsmen in history playing for us at present - in Williamson, Taylor and Guptill (according to that list). But I don't really think that's true.
     
    Anyway, here's Imran sorting a few batsmen out for you. Probably invented reverse swing - have a look at the two wickets at the three minute mark.
     



  • i have two enduring memories of pace bowling performances in one day cricket. one was shane bond repeatedly dismantling an aussie ODI batting lineup which would be in the conversation for 'best ever'. the other is wasim akram repeatedly destroying NZ ODI batting lineups which would be in the conversation for... well... not bad. for us. i guess. i'd pick both of them for a start. 
     
    i'd pick starc to open alongside bond (but i'm not fucking happy about that) and garner to bowl first change, and probably death. wasim can mostly bowl at the death, nasty reversing nightmare-giving yorkers. imran is super-tempting, but i just wouldn't want to leave any of those quicks out.
     
    warne is my spinner, cause he doesn't chuck it, but muralitharan can be 12th man who plays for one of the seamers on spin-friendly pitches.
     
    gotta pick sachin, viv richards, and AB. ponting and lara, sure, why not.
     
    i have an irrational dislike of dhoni, so it's between sanga and gilchrist to keep - sanga is by far the better player. you could make a case that more smash is more valuable given the runs in the top order, but it's a long-ish tail with all my bowlers being not that flash with the bat.
     
    1 sachin
    2 lara
    3 sangakarra
    4 ponting
    5 richards
    6 AB
    7 akram
    8 starc
    9 warne
    10 bond
    11 garner
    12 (muralitharan)



  • i have two enduring memories of pace bowling performances in one day cricket. one was shane bond repeatedly dismantling an aussie ODI batting lineup which would be in the conversation for 'best ever'. the other is wasim akram repeatedly destroying NZ ODI batting lineups which would be in the conversation for... well... not bad. for us. i guess. i'd pick both of them for a start. 
     
    i'd pick starc to open alongside bond (but i'm not fucking happy about that) and garner to bowl first change, and probably death. wasim can mostly bowl at the death, nasty reversing nightmare-giving yorkers. imran is super-tempting, but i just wouldn't want to leave any of those quicks out.
     
    warne is my spinner, cause he doesn't chuck it, but muralitharan can be 12th man who plays for one of the seamers on spin-friendly pitches.
     
    gotta pick sachin, viv richards, and AB. ponting and lara, sure, why not.
     
    i have an irrational dislike of dhoni, so it's between sanga and gilchrist to keep - sanga is by far the better player. you could make a case that more smash is more valuable given the runs in the top order, but it's a long-ish tail with all my bowlers being not that flash with the bat.
     
    1 sachin
    2 lara
    3 sangakarra
    4 ponting
    5 richards
    6 AB
    7 akram
    8 starc
    9 warne
    10 bond
    11 garner
    12 (muralitharan)

    Shit that opening batting combo alone would put a few bums on seats but you'd be a bit worried in the unlikely event none of the top order fired. Not a huge amount of batting talent down low.



  • The chances of all those blokes failing in the one game would be pretty remote.



  • Reprobate I remember that performance from Bond that you mentioned and can't believe the Caps lost. Was it cos Fleming bowled him out and didn't save a couple of overs for later ? I don't recall exactly......
     
    Seeing Bondy cause that amazing batting line up to jump about like a bunch of tail enders is one of my favourite cricketing memories ever.



  • The chances of all those blokes failing in the one game would be pretty remote.

    and if they did, i don't reckon i would be as worried as the opposition batsmen.



  • Reprobate I remember that performance from Bond that you mentioned and can't believe the Caps lost. Was it cos Fleming bowled him out and didn't save a couple of overs for later ? I don't recall exactly......
     
    Seeing Bondy cause that amazing batting line up to jump about like a bunch of tail enders is one of my favourite cricketing memories ever.

    i reckon flem's use of bond was generally first rate - i guess sometimes one incredible guy just isn't quite enough to redress the overall gulf in class between the teams. it has to be one of the most astonishingly dominant performances in a losing side.



  • i reckon flem's use of bond was generally first rate - i guess sometimes one incredible guy just isn't quite enough to redress the overall gulf in class between the teams. it has to be one of the most astonishingly dominant performances in a losing side.

     
    There's the card there. If memory serves Bichel got his score after Bond had finished his overs but have a look at the names in that top order, all of whom couldn't play him to save themselves. Amazing to think that wasn't even Bonds best figures, he got 6/19 vs India.
     
    Cairns obviously injured and playing as a specialist batsman and what the fuck Vettori was doing opening the batting in a team that had Astle, Vincent and McCullum is anyones guess.



  • The chances of all those blokes failing in the one game would be pretty remote.

    Actually not as remote as one would expect.  The batsmen in your team scores 50+ in about 30% of their innings.  So you can expect all of them to fail to make 50 in about 11% of their games (one game in 9, which is pretty good TBH).  But ideally you need two batsmen to build a big partnership as it is no good one guy goes big, but runs out of partners at the other end.  The chances of five failing to make 50 is one in game in 6.  In that one game I would prefer to have couple of blokes that can hang around support the set batsman to build decent score.
     
    Another consideration is how much freedom your fifth wicket partnership can play with knowing that the next wicket expose the tail.



  • On Pollock - well, he's probably part of the conversation, but for me Imram walks into the team ahead of both him and Kapil. Imran became a genuine specialist batsman as well as being a deadly bowler - Kapil more a bowler who could bat and hit massively - never had the genuine pace of Imran.

    Sorry for only getting back to this point now, but it is amazing how quickly people forgot how good Pollock was.  He took an absolute truckload of wickets at a better average, strike rate and, most impressively, economy rate than Imran despite playing in a far more batting friendly and aggressive era.   
     
    He declined quite badly in last year or so of his international career, which I think has tainted his legacy (but not his stats).


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