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All Blacks 2025

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  • sparkyS Offline
    sparkyS Offline
    sparky
    replied to booboo on last edited by
    #863

    @booboo Those games confirm my broader point that there is no room for complacency for the ABs at moment.

    They narrowly beat England in all three of those games. All three could have gone the other way. If George Ford had landed a simple drop goal shot England would have won the last one. None of those were anything other than mediocre performances by the All Blacks.

    Robertson and co. will have to offer more in 2025 or serious questions will be asked whether they are up to the job.

    taniwharugbyT boobooB 2 Replies Last reply
    0
  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to sparky on last edited by
    #864

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    All three could have gone the other way.

    fuck, play sliding doors in any game and there are pivotal moments that could have changed the outcome, moreso a successful DG sends the game back to half way, who says we dont score off the restart?

    There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.

    sparkyS 1 Reply Last reply
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  • sparkyS Offline
    sparkyS Offline
    sparky
    replied to taniwharugby on last edited by
    #865

    @taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    All three could have gone the other way.

    There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.

    Yeah, sure, but we didn't.

    taniwharugbyT boobooB 2 Replies Last reply
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  • BonesB Offline
    BonesB Offline
    Bones
    wrote on last edited by
    #866

    That was a fairly average England, they didn't have nearly as much talent running around as they do now. Prolly still saved by their coach being worse though.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugbyT Offline
    taniwharugby
    replied to sparky on last edited by
    #867

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    @taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    All three could have gone the other way.

    There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.

    Yeah, sure, but we didn't.

    haha, exactly the same is applied to your comment re England wining those games.

    1 Reply Last reply
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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    reprobate
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #868

    @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:

    @frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

    I don’t necessarily think it is unusual that a new coach any sport would favour his trusted old boys when stepping up to the biggest job in the sport, in fact I think it is probably a fair enough natural bias… however in years 2&3 as the natural bias wears off he has to steer away from it, and I expect that it will.

    Robertson was deliberately chosen to make a complete break from the old, established practice. The inexperience argument just doesn't hold water.

    I am as anti Robertson being conservative as anyone, but I think this is just a straight assumption. We had been playing badly for a long time, picking Foster as a successful assistant but not a successful head coach did not pan out, and so this time they picked a successful coach instead - anyone would have been a break from the Henry era - unless you think they were going to pick one of Foster's assistants?
    What doesn't wash with me is Robertson picking average players (Chiefs, Crusaders, Blues), past-it players (Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes), and players (Crusaders) who have yet to show anything approaching AB level when playing Super. He's done a mediocre job so far, but I don't think his appointment was to clean house any more than a different appointment (Joseph/Cotter/Rennie/whoever) would have been.

    Victor MeldrewV 1 Reply Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to reprobate on last edited by
    #869

    @reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

    @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:

    @frugby said in All Blacks 2025:

    I don’t necessarily think it is unusual that a new coach any sport would favour his trusted old boys when stepping up to the biggest job in the sport, in fact I think it is probably a fair enough natural bias… however in years 2&3 as the natural bias wears off he has to steer away from it, and I expect that it will.

    Robertson was deliberately chosen to make a complete break from the old, established practice. The inexperience argument just doesn't hold water.

    I am as anti Robertson being conservative as anyone, but I think this is just a straight assumption. We had been playing badly for a long time, picking Foster as a successful assistant but not a successful head coach did not pan out, and so this time they picked a successful coach instead - anyone would have been a break from the Henry era - unless you think they were going to pick one of Foster's assistants?
    What doesn't wash with me is Robertson picking average players (Chiefs, Crusaders, Blues), past-it players (Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes), and players (Crusaders) who have yet to show anything approaching AB level when playing Super. He's done a mediocre job so far, but I don't think his appointment was to clean house any more than a different appointment (Joseph/Cotter/Rennie/whoever) would have been.

    They picked a successful super rugby coach as a head coach. That's a clear break from the old, established continuity approach. Fine by me, roll the dice and give a 4 year contract to let him settle in

    But, If I were the head of NZR, i.e God, I've have moved heaven and earth to ensure an experienced international coach like Cotter or Schmidt was a key part of the coaching set-up

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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jet
    wrote on last edited by
    #870

    Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.

    The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).

    Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.

    nzzpN Victor MeldrewV 2 Replies Last reply
    1
  • nzzpN Online
    nzzpN Online
    nzzp
    replied to Jet on last edited by
    #871

    @Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

    The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late.

    The best time would have been after 2 years of Continuity Foster. Take us to the RWC and you'd see if he had the coaching chops at Test level. 4 more years at the Crusaders didn't develop him any more unfortunately. However, NZR don't seem to move coaches on easily - that would have been a 'not renewed contract' not a sacking.

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  • NepiaN Offline
    NepiaN Offline
    Nepia
    replied to Jet on last edited by
    #872

    @Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

    My contention is he isn’t the best available.

    Yes he has been. He's been a dependable test experienced midfielder who has been used to fill the gap when the two top players aren't available.

    Don't have an issue with your comments about other players not being picked because they don't have completely all round games, but their strengths are utilised, however with ALB I think you've flipped it the other way.

    J 1 Reply Last reply
    6
  • KiwiwombleK Offline
    KiwiwombleK Offline
    Kiwiwomble
    wrote on last edited by
    #873

    something ive slowly learnt as a Highlanders fan, year on year i look and think "hey...thats a solid squad, we;ll do alright"...and then we dont. we need to stop look at our players and think theyre good or great...when we're not getting the results we should....if we're not doing well....then theyre not the right players

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  • mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4lifeM Offline
    mariner4life
    wrote on last edited by
    #874

    This ALB slander will not stand.

    alt text

    For many, many years, ALB was the most complete midfielder in the country, both sides of the ball. Accurate in defense, inventive in attack. He's 29, he's played a decade for the Chiefs, and 80+ tests. He's had some standout moments in Black, both off the bench and starting. 2024 wasn't his year, but just ignoring everything up to that point is complete bullshit.

    KiwiwombleK P 2 Replies Last reply
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  • Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor MeldrewV Offline
    Victor Meldrew
    replied to Jet on last edited by
    #875

    @Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

    Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.

    And riding a big media campaign

    The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).

    He still has/had the cream of NZ rugby to pick from. And he knew the career plans of those 2 when he took on the job.

    Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.

    While he hasn't turned out to be the glorious Coach Fantastic his fanbois repeated assured us he would be, it's a bit early to judge him fully. This year will remove that luxury though.

    J 1 Reply Last reply
    7
  • KiwiwombleK Offline
    KiwiwombleK Offline
    Kiwiwomble
    replied to mariner4life on last edited by Kiwiwomble
    #876

    @mariner4life all fair points, i sometimes feel we spend far too much time talking about whos on then bench (ie the final 20min or the odd time something goes wrong rather than the majority of the game)...and we often pick these versatile guys almost as a wee thanks..."you were never quite #1....but please hang around"...but if im honest id rather be losing these guys in their late 20's early 30's overseas....than the youngster guys that cant see a path into the black jersey

    potential to be a future long term starter should trump "dependable" if something goes wrong

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jet
    replied to Nepia on last edited by
    #877

    @Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

    @Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

    My contention is he isn’t the best available.

    Yes he has been. He's been a dependable test experienced midfielder who has been used to fill the gap when the two top players aren't available.

    Don't have an issue with your comments about other players not being picked because they don't have completely all round games, but their strengths are utilised, however with ALB I think you've flipped it the other way.

    81 caps.....

    Bonkers stuff.

    1 Reply Last reply
    1
  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jet
    replied to Victor Meldrew on last edited by
    #878

    @Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:

    @Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

    Based on all the information we had at the time, it had to be Robertson. He was riding the crest of a wave.

    And riding a big media campaign

    The bizarre thing was they gave it to him too late. After the departure of his captain (Whitelock) and his 10 (Mo'unga).

    He still has/had the cream of NZ rugby to pick from. And he knew the career plans of those 2 when he took on the job.

    Im more disappointed in him since he got the job, than I would be with NZ for giving it to him.

    While he hasn't turned out to be the glorious Coach Fantastic his fanbois repeated assured us he would be, it's a bit early to judge him fully. This year will remove that luxury though.

    Fair points, well made.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to sparky on last edited by
    #879

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    @booboo Those games confirm my broader point that there is no room for complacency for the ABs at moment.

    They narrowly beat England in all three of those games. All three could have gone the other way. If George Ford had landed a simple drop goal shot England would have won the last one. None of those were anything other than mediocre performances by the All Blacks.

    Robertson and co. will have to offer more in 2025 or serious questions will be asked whether they are up to the job.

    Agree with your broader point.

    Re second bolded bit, the same sliding doors would have seen us beating France. But we didn't, and England didn't beat us.

    Of course the series v France will be "tough". It's a series against France.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
  • boobooB Offline
    boobooB Offline
    booboo
    replied to sparky on last edited by
    #880

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    @taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:

    @sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

    All three could have gone the other way.

    There were other games we could have won last year, but didnt.

    Yeah, sure, but we didn't.

    The irony is strong in this one.

    1 Reply Last reply
    3
  • KiwiMurphK Online
    KiwiMurphK Online
    KiwiMurph
    wrote on last edited by
    #881

    We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc

    J sparkyS 2 Replies Last reply
    9
  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jet
    replied to KiwiMurph on last edited by Jet
    #882

    @KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:

    We need to stop worrying about what players offered in the previous world cup cycle (and earlier than that in some cases) and think about what are they going to offer in 2025 and beyond. This applies to Beauden, Rieko, ALB, Havili etc

    It’s applied to the 4 of them (and others) for years already.

    There is a cadre of blokes leading an incredibly charmed life.

    Lads racking up 70/80 cheap caps and in Beaudys case a dozen caps shy of McCaw while scoring one try a year.

    It’s laughable.

    As I have said before, I used to love some of these players and unlike say a Cullen or Umaga where you might have felt they had more left and you thought what if, I’m sick of the sight of some of these lads now.

    And that doesn’t sit well with me.
    They were good Allblacks.

    But they should have gotten the tap on the shoulder years ago.

    1 Reply Last reply
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