2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia
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@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
There's plenty of players who went to South Africa as Lions. Plenty of them have enough experience playing Tests. They'll be professional enough to know that they're beating up on SR squad players in a country with limited depth.
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@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
exactly this, if everyone is too nice then where is the pressure in training, where is the Paul O'Connell forcing people to go harder? the warm up games these days are a joke and its a real shame, but its a fact of life. The tests will be a whole other level of intensity.
TBH I think the competition in training will be harder - players know everyone's looking good beating up SR teams devoid of their stars. Everyone of them will be wanting to stake a claim to make the Test side.
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@Bovidae said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Surely they will want a few more Aussies in the AUNZ team.
If they had enough, there wouldn't be an AUNZ team.
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@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
The lack (so far) of credible opposition is making this Lions tour a little less attractive, certainly currently. I'm not sure of Schmidt's intransigence in not releasing Wallabies. is it to protect depth? Is it to have an undercooked Lions team (cue conspiracy theories)? All I do know is that for the tour to have real traction the games outside tests must have some form of jeopardy attaching to them. Otherwise we may as well can them and just play the tests. Have a few warm up games in the UK. Fly over for three weeks, do the test series and then jump on the plane home. It would put a few more £££s in the home unions' coffers and cut down on time away from home.
A tour should be a tour.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
The lack (so far) of credible opposition is making this Lions tour a little less attractive, certainly currently. I'm not sure of Schmidt's intransigence in not releasing Wallabies. is it to protect depth? Is it to have an undercooked Lions team (cue conspiracy theories)? All I do know is that for the tour to have real traction the games outside tests must have some form of jeopardy attaching to them. Otherwise we may as well can them and just play the tests. Have a few warm up games in the UK. Fly over for three weeks, do the test series and then jump on the plane home. It would put a few more £££s in the home unions' coffers and cut down on time away from home.
A tour should be a tour.
That wasn't really the case in 2021, 2013, 2009, 2005 2001 etc...
2017 is probably the one time that the club games were all largely competitive.
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@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
The lack (so far) of credible opposition is making this Lions tour a little less attractive, certainly currently. I'm not sure of Schmidt's intransigence in not releasing Wallabies. is it to protect depth? Is it to have an undercooked Lions team (cue conspiracy theories)? All I do know is that for the tour to have real traction the games outside tests must have some form of jeopardy attaching to them. Otherwise we may as well can them and just play the tests. Have a few warm up games in the UK. Fly over for three weeks, do the test series and then jump on the plane home. It would put a few more £££s in the home unions' coffers and cut down on time away from home.
A tour should be a tour.
That wasn't really the case in 2021, 2013, 2009, 2005 2001 etc...
2017 is probably the one time that the club games were all largely competitive.
There have always been some not very competitive matches, but usually there have at least been some of the non-test games that were close or even losses for the BILs.
2001 we lost to Australia A and squeaked home with a last gasp try and conversion against the Brumbies
2005 we lost to the Maori and had close games v Southland and Auckland. From memory the games against Otago and Wellington were pretty competitive with the BILs pulling away in the late stages.
2009 we drew v the Emerging Springboks and had close games v Western Province, Royal XV and Cheetahs.
2013 Very close v the Brumbies, competitive v Queensland and only the Farce and Combined Country being blow outs.
2017 A draw against the Hurricanes and very close against NZ Provincial Barbarians, Blues and Crusaders and pretty close v the Maori.
2019 I don't think is a good yardstick due to the whole covid thing fucking things up but we still managed to lose v SA A.
Now I get that the depth in Aussie is not the same as SA or NZ but so far on this tour we've been playing the Super sides minus most of their classier players. not so much a who's who of a team more of a who's that team. If that continues for the whole tour it would be a shame and a good advert for those that say Lions tours are an anachronism and should be shelved.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
2019 I don't think is a good yardstick due to the whole covid thing fucking things up but we still managed to lose v SA A.
Yeah, definite strawman that one. Terrible yardstick.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Now I get that the depth in Aussie is not the same as SA or NZ but so far on this tour we've been playing the Super sides minus most of their classier players. not so much a who's who of a team more of a who's that team. If that continues for the whole tour it would be a shame and a good advert for those that say Lions tours are an anachronism and should be shelved.
Which would be a shame, but let's remember Lions Tours to Australia were always seen as a bit of a joke up until Australia actually won something.
If all the Test players were released to provinces the simple fact is the Wallabies wouldn't be nearly as good come Test time. This is a very quick Lions tour in a congested calendar for the NH players, and 10 days between a Test-laden Brumbies and the first Test is a logistical challenge for any coach.
Short of making the tour longer* I don't see how this can be avoided.
Maybe just skip Australia next time?
*And/or going back in time to unfuck the state of Australian rugby.
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@NTA said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Maybe just skip Australia next time?
I vote NTA for Australia's Minister of Tourism.
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@NTA said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Now I get that the depth in Aussie is not the same as SA or NZ but so far on this tour we've been playing the Super sides minus most of their classier players. not so much a who's who of a team more of a who's that team. If that continues for the whole tour it would be a shame and a good advert for those that say Lions tours are an anachronism and should be shelved.
Which would be a shame, but let's remember Lions Tours to Australia were always seen as a bit of a joke up until Australia actually won something.
Post war the first tour solely to Australia was the 1989 one and this will be only the fourth. None of those has been considered a joke, but yeah before that it was a ritual 2-0 win for the BILs on an add on tour to NZ. In the modern era it has always been a pretty full on affair and I am sure the test series will be the same.
If all the Test players were released to provinces the simple fact is the Wallabies wouldn't be nearly as good come Test time. This is a very quick Lions tour in a congested calendar for the NH players, and 10 days between a Test-laden Brumbies and the first Test is a logistical challenge for any coach.
it is not an easy circle to square for sure. The tight schedule and the shallow pool of talent in Australia compared to SA & NZ ensures that, but it should not be used as an excuse for serving up a series of non contests (Caveat: So far).
Short of making the tour longer* I don't see how this can be avoided.
Maybe just skip Australia next time?
No thank you.
*And/or going back in time to unfuck the state of Australian rugby.
If at all possible. Yes please.
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If Owen F is anywhere near the 23 it will be a massive piss take and will impact on Farrell Senior’s standing when he goes back to Ireland / moves to England
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@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
If at all possible. Yes please.
My people will call your people
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@MiketheSnow said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
If Owen F is anywhere near the 23 it will be a massive piss take and will impact on Farrell Senior’s standing when he goes back to Ireland / moves to England
I don't agree tbh, if he shows up in training etc. Listen to any ex pro who's played with him and they're so complimentary about him as a leader, on and off the pitch, I don't think the players on tour would have an issue tbh, they will likely see his value.
Whether he's worth it as a player from an outsiders point of view is entirely different, fans will bitch but it won't undermine AF.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
The lack (so far) of credible opposition is making this Lions tour a little less attractive, certainly currently. I'm not sure of Schmidt's intransigence in not releasing Wallabies. is it to protect depth? Is it to have an undercooked Lions team (cue conspiracy theories)? All I do know is that for the tour to have real traction the games outside tests must have some form of jeopardy attaching to them. Otherwise we may as well can them and just play the tests. Have a few warm up games in the UK. Fly over for three weeks, do the test series and then jump on the plane home. It would put a few more £££s in the home unions' coffers and cut down on time away from home.
A tour should be a tour.
That wasn't really the case in 2021, 2013, 2009, 2005 2001 etc...
2017 is probably the one time that the club games were all largely competitive.
There have always been some not very competitive matches, but usually there have at least been some of the non-test games that were close or even losses for the BILs.
2001 we lost to Australia A and squeaked home with a last gasp try and conversion against the Brumbies
2005 we lost to the Maori and had close games v Southland and Auckland. From memory the games against Otago and Wellington were pretty competitive with the BILs pulling away in the late stages.
2009 we drew v the Emerging Springboks and had close games v Western Province, Royal XV and Cheetahs.
2013 Very close v the Brumbies, competitive v Queensland and only the Farce and Combined Country being blow outs.
2017 A draw against the Hurricanes and very close against NZ Provincial Barbarians, Blues and Crusaders and pretty close v the Maori.
2019 I don't think is a good yardstick due to the whole covid thing fucking things up but we still managed to lose v SA A.
Now I get that the depth in Aussie is not the same as SA or NZ but so far on this tour we've been playing the Super sides minus most of their classier players. not so much a who's who of a team more of a who's that team. If that continues for the whole tour it would be a shame and a good advert for those that say Lions tours are an anachronism and should be shelved.
I think the Force and Reds games were both pretty competitive for 40 minutes.
Yes, there have been a couple of closer games on most tours in the past, but that's looking at all the games throughout, not just the opening two. I suspect the ANZAC game will be fairly competitive, and playing the Brumbies in Canberra will likely be a relatively close affair too thanks to the conditions. Who knows about the Pacific-First Nations team.
Factor in that Australia are weaker than usual and the Lions are arguably stronger than usual (Ireland, England, Scotland all at pretty good points in their trajectories), and it's understandable if this particular tour has slightly less competitive warm-up matches - but I don't think there's a stark difference between this tour and most of the previous ones in the pro era (bar 2017, which is very much an outlier).
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@Catogrande very bold.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
The lack (so far) of credible opposition is making this Lions tour a little less attractive, certainly currently. I'm not sure of Schmidt's intransigence in not releasing Wallabies. is it to protect depth? Is it to have an undercooked Lions team (cue conspiracy theories)? All I do know is that for the tour to have real traction the games outside tests must have some form of jeopardy attaching to them. Otherwise we may as well can them and just play the tests. Have a few warm up games in the UK. Fly over for three weeks, do the test series and then jump on the plane home. It would put a few more £££s in the home unions' coffers and cut down on time away from home.
A tour should be a tour.
That wasn't really the case in 2021, 2013, 2009, 2005 2001 etc...
2017 is probably the one time that the club games were all largely competitive.
There have always been some not very competitive matches, but usually there have at least been some of the non-test games that were close or even losses for the BILs.
2001 we lost to Australia A and squeaked home with a last gasp try and conversion against the Brumbies
2005 we lost to the Maori and had close games v Southland and Auckland. From memory the games against Otago and Wellington were pretty competitive with the BILs pulling away in the late stages.
2009 we drew v the Emerging Springboks and had close games v Western Province, Royal XV and Cheetahs.
2013 Very close v the Brumbies, competitive v Queensland and only the Farce and Combined Country being blow outs.
2017 A draw against the Hurricanes and very close against NZ Provincial Barbarians, Blues and Crusaders and pretty close v the Maori.
2019 I don't think is a good yardstick due to the whole covid thing fucking things up but we still managed to lose v SA A.
Now I get that the depth in Aussie is not the same as SA or NZ but so far on this tour we've been playing the Super sides minus most of their classier players. not so much a who's who of a team more of a who's that team. If that continues for the whole tour it would be a shame and a good advert for those that say Lions tours are an anachronism and should be shelved.
I can’t let you leave out the 2017 tour loss to the Highlanders 23-22. Good times.
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@Landers92 said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Mr-Fish said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@antipodean said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Saw a tweet yesterday that suggested that this Lions squad have been very happy clappy, very friendly etc and that Farrell brought some steel. I started to think about it and I couldn't think of a single player on tour who fits the Martin Johnson / Alan Wyn Jones mould. There might just be something in it.
What steel is required? They've given out two absolute canings with no discernible reason this weekend against the Tahs will be any different.
Farrell brings nothing but an astonishing ability to not be held to account for his bullshit tackling technique. A technique that would've ended his career if other players were permitted to do the same to him with impunity.
That's probably exactly why steel is required. Don't think the Super warm-ups will be of much concern to Andy Farrell. The Tests (and probably the ANZAC game) will be much tougher and Farrell might be worried his men are going in with too low expectations of their opposition.
The lack (so far) of credible opposition is making this Lions tour a little less attractive, certainly currently. I'm not sure of Schmidt's intransigence in not releasing Wallabies. is it to protect depth? Is it to have an undercooked Lions team (cue conspiracy theories)? All I do know is that for the tour to have real traction the games outside tests must have some form of jeopardy attaching to them. Otherwise we may as well can them and just play the tests. Have a few warm up games in the UK. Fly over for three weeks, do the test series and then jump on the plane home. It would put a few more £££s in the home unions' coffers and cut down on time away from home.
A tour should be a tour.
That wasn't really the case in 2021, 2013, 2009, 2005 2001 etc...
2017 is probably the one time that the club games were all largely competitive.
There have always been some not very competitive matches, but usually there have at least been some of the non-test games that were close or even losses for the BILs.
2001 we lost to Australia A and squeaked home with a last gasp try and conversion against the Brumbies
2005 we lost to the Maori and had close games v Southland and Auckland. From memory the games against Otago and Wellington were pretty competitive with the BILs pulling away in the late stages.
2009 we drew v the Emerging Springboks and had close games v Western Province, Royal XV and Cheetahs.
2013 Very close v the Brumbies, competitive v Queensland and only the Farce and Combined Country being blow outs.
2017 A draw against the Hurricanes and very close against NZ Provincial Barbarians, Blues and Crusaders and pretty close v the Maori.
2019 I don't think is a good yardstick due to the whole covid thing fucking things up but we still managed to lose v SA A.
Now I get that the depth in Aussie is not the same as SA or NZ but so far on this tour we've been playing the Super sides minus most of their classier players. not so much a who's who of a team more of a who's that team. If that continues for the whole tour it would be a shame and a good advert for those that say Lions tours are an anachronism and should be shelved.
I can’t let you leave out the 2017 tour loss to the Highlanders 23-22. Good times.
Fuck those fluffybunnies. And fuck you for correcting me
