2018 AB Depth Chart
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@Stargazer said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Gunner said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Tim said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
So, for next year's 10's:
- Beauden Barrett
- Lima Sopoaga
- Richie Mo'unga
- Mitchell Hunt
Ihaia West- Otere Black
- Stephen Perofeta
- Ihaia West
- Hayden Parker
- Bryn Gatland
Fixed
I actually expect West will improve a lot at the Canes.
And Perofeta better than West? Way too early to tell.
I agree with a lot of that but I don't agree here. West is who he is at this point - he's had 4/5 years at Super level. As I said in the other thread, I think it's a good signing for the Canes cos West is a dynamic bench player at Super Rugby level just look at what he did for the Blues off the bench this year, he'd be one of the best bench impact 10s in Super I reckon. However, I cannot see how West will improve 'a lot', he may though look better as he won't be asked to start.
What is also clear at this point is West has limitations as a starting 10 at Super Rugby level. While Perofeta and Black may indeed not turn out any better, I applaud the Blues for giving it a go - West wasn't going to get the job done - definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
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@Stargazer said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Gunner said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Tim said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
So, for next year's 10's:
- Beauden Barrett
- Lima Sopoaga
- Richie Mo'unga
- Mitchell Hunt
Ihaia West- Otere Black
- Stephen Perofeta
- Ihaia West
- Hayden Parker
- Bryn Gatland
Fixed
No, not fixed. You don't know whether Black is better than West.
Thanks for clearing that up, I really was unsure as to what my own opinion was.
Next time I think my opinion may be wrong on something, I'll be sure to check with you before sharing.
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@KiwiMurph said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Stargazer said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Gunner said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Tim said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
So, for next year's 10's:
- Beauden Barrett
- Lima Sopoaga
- Richie Mo'unga
- Mitchell Hunt
Ihaia West- Otere Black
- Stephen Perofeta
- Ihaia West
- Hayden Parker
- Bryn Gatland
Fixed
I actually expect West will improve a lot at the Canes.
And Perofeta better than West? Way too early to tell.
I agree with a lot of that but I don't agree here. West is who he is at this point - he's had 4/5 years at Super level. As I said in the other thread, I think it's a good signing for the Canes cos West is a dynamic bench player at Super Rugby level just look at what he did for the Blues off the bench this year, he'd be one of the best bench impact 10s in Super I reckon. However, I cannot see how West will improve 'a lot', he may though look better as he won't be asked to start.
What is also clear at this point is West has limitations as a starting 10 at Super Rugby level. While Perofeta and Black may indeed not turn out any better, I applaud the Blues for giving it a go - West wasn't going to get the job done - definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I'm sure I'll get the acid poured all over me from Blues fans for saying this, but I blame a lot of those so-called limitations of West on the Blues environment. In most of his time at the Blues, he didn't get regular starts. In his first year, he came in as injury cover and only played a few games. The next year, the endless rotation! Then he finally got starts, but in a team of individuals going for individual glory rather than a team that played for each other. I think he has been unfairly blamed for the Blues' failures by the media and Blues supporters (the whole backline didn't function). Not good for any player's confidence. This year, Pulu entering the frame didn't really help and SBW only played since April and wasn't in great form in most of his games. By then, West had lost his starting spot.
At the Canes, he'll make a fresh start amidst better team players and with a great 10 to learn from. Yep, I'm confident he'll step up and maybe he'll even become good enough to be a starter in any other team than the Blues.
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@Gunner said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Stargazer said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Gunner said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
@Tim said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
So, for next year's 10's:
- Beauden Barrett
- Lima Sopoaga
- Richie Mo'unga
- Mitchell Hunt
Ihaia West- Otere Black
- Stephen Perofeta
- Ihaia West
- Hayden Parker
- Bryn Gatland
Fixed
No, not fixed. You don't know whether Black is better than West.
Thanks for clearing that up, I really was unsure as to what my own opinion was.
Next time I think my opinion may be wrong on something, I'll be sure to check with you before sharing.
Oh, so your post was an opinion and mine was not? If you post something like that it's okay, but I may not make a comment on it that says the opposite? Next time I think your opinion may be wrong on something, I'll be sure to check with you before sharing mine.
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jesus SG do you have to be so fucking earnest all the time? Lighten the fuck up.
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@mariner4life Why would I? Everyone responds in their own way.
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@Duluth said in 2018 AB Depth Chart:
Haha
So everybody but West is responsible for Wests form
Because Hawkes Bay
Great analysis!
Fucking Dorklanders! Half the country's population and you still can't find a 10 better than a ginga from Havelock North.
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@mariner4life No, I didn't. I just said I blamed a lot of it on the Blues environment. I didn't say I blamed everything that didn't go well on the Blues environment (or anyone else), nor did I say West was faultless. I didn't bring his province into this either. Some of you guys just try to read things into it that I didn't say.
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@Stargazer I think you raise a lot of valid points - the fact the Blues haven't had a proper midfield in forever certainly doesnt help (that seems to be changing finally with the likes of SBW and Faiane) and some pretty average 9s in recent years.
However, there are some issues with West's game that are entirely his doing.
How I would put it is that with the Blues in recent years his weaknesses have been exposed whereas at the Canes these are more likely to be hidden - however i'd suggest they'll still be there.
He doesn't take over games but rather tends to play a supplementary role as a 10 - I've seen this for years including way back when Hawke's Bay would play off Alby at 9 - he has moments of magic but doesn't direct play. His challenging of the line is a lot more effective off the bench - when he starts he tends to stand deep and passive. His kicking game is also poor - the length and quality of his clearing kicks is not great, the Blues have often been burnt by this. He also isnt a great decision maker under pressure and can get monstered early in games. When the heat really has come on in recent years when he's been starting 10 for the Blues he has been consistently found wanting.
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@KiwiMurph I agree with most of that, but I'd like to know (and we'll probably never find out) what they have done at the Blues to actually address those weaknesses? The backline hasn't functioned well in years, where lies the backs coach's responsibility in this? People have also frequently questioned the Blues' game plan over the years; there may be some of the answer in there as well. For what it's worth, my impression is that West's biggest problem is lack of confidence.
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@Stargazer Yep I think that's fair. I think originally under Kirwan it was all a complete shambles, especially in the final year when Ted and Mick Byrne were not around. Tana had has a heck of a job to do to rebuild the whole franchise and to me has done a fine job. He has turned the Blues into a playoff calibre team (the only reason the Blues aren't in the playoffs is the conference system). But along the way Tana has had some learnings. His first backs coach was Paul Feeney, a man who cost Auckland an ITM Cup title because he wouldn't drop Simon Hickey for Mitch Hunt.
Some things are up to the individual though, e.g. kicking. He should putting in extras day in and day out to try and maximise that skill. Of course not everyone can reach the same heights and perhaps he has done and he has maximised the distance on his clearning kicks for example.
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@Tim Beaver will be a useful squad member but there is no way Cooper will relying on him to be the starting 1st 5. That would be a step backwards, even for a local legend.
Maybe Cooper has other ideas (or rocks in his head) but I'd say there is only a very slim chance that DMac isn't wearing the no.10 jersey. He wants to play there but has been happy to bide his time at FB.
As a recent example, I thought DMac played well in the 2nd half vs the Canes after Cruden left the field.
