Lean gains / intermittent fasting

JK

Been reading up a bit on the above and was wondering if anyone had tried it? 
 
Lean gains (see [url="http://www.leangains.com"]http://www.leangains.com[/url]) appears to have quite a few followers and has yielded some great results from what I can see. 
 
Alot of people seem to be moving away from the 6 small meals a day 'Scam' and more into thoughts of IIFYM (if it fits your macros) and that meal timing is largely irrelevant. However the latter school of thought doesnt appear to be consistent with lean gains which involves fasting for 16 hours each day and in the remaining 8 hours consuming your standard caloric intake across say 3 meals. The standard approach appears to be to have a feeding window of day 12pm to 8pm and fasting for the rest of the time. 
 
This could mean that you train fasted or not depending on the timing of your workout. 
 
I work out at 6am each morning so train fasted anyway with just some BCAAs and black coffee pre-workout. Its the post workout intake (or lackthereof) which I cant get my head around. I usually nail a protein shake before leaving the gym and then have a cup of oats with more protein and a bananna about 30mins later once at work. Under leangains I wouldnt be having this feed and would need to wait until around 12 to kick things off.Some additional BCAAs are recommended post workout though in order to get through the remainder of the fasting period. 
 
Gonna do some more research as must be alot of early morning trainers who also are doing leangains and will see how it works for them.

BartMan

anything to do with fasting, in my complete unfounded non researched mind is net to joining a cult...!!!!

JK

Haha straight to the point as usual Bart. 
 
I've done a lot of research on the net over the past few days and seems a lot of supporters but it doesn't appear that anyone in competitive bodybuilding seems to follow it. That should really tell me something I guess. Do you know of anyone who does it Bart? 
 
Management of caloric intake just seems the easiest and most proven way to go. 
 
What are your thoughts on IIFYM?

antipodean

Isn't fasting what you do between dinner and breakfast?

Wairau

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4]JK, I don't agree with it, [u]mostly[/u]. 
Here's a quote from their website that I disagree with. Sure, once or twice a week a little indulgence is ok-so IIFYM on occasion is fine-I usually let myself indulge on days I burn a lot of calories (longer hill hikes), but to maintain the focus and results in the long run, we need to be a bit stricter. Further, I think their emphasis on carbs is misplaced. I think we should be eating more colored veges, more alkaline nuts soaked overnight, a spread of fruit varieties, and lean meat consistently during the day. It's relatively easy to prepare food for a day or two and package it in small containers and have it when needed-or quickly boil some meat and veges/microwave up some eggs, plus 1-2 whey protein powders depending on workouts and a casein protein powder before sleeping.[/size][/font] 
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=3]The quote: 
[quote][i]What â€œeat whatever you want as long as it fits into your macrosâ€ means is basically, eat right, but donâ€™t get all caught up in the whole â€˜clean vs dirtyâ€™ food debate that seems to still go on. If you want to eat whole grain bread, oats, brown rice, etc. etc. Then do it.[b] If you want to eat white bread, white rice, and pop tarts, as long as it fits in with your other macronutrients and your goals in terms of caloric intake then it isnâ€™t going to make much of a difference in the long run.[/b] It all comes down to personal preference.[/i] 
[color=#555555][i]So, basically donâ€™t get into the whole â€œIf I have ice cream Iâ€™m going to get fatâ€ or, â€œIâ€™ll never have pizza againâ€ mentality. If you want it, you can have it, just make sure it fits in with all the guidelines above. [/i][/quote][/color][/size][/font] 
 
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#555555]Ultimately, eating clean is a challenge-it goes against our upbringing and social mores. It's inconvenient and not very tasty at times. It requires commitment and a bit of an attitude and lifestyle change. It's ok to indulge on occasion, but not habitually.[/color][/size][/font]

Rancid Schnitzel

Hmmmm. I thought the whole rationale behind eating regularly was that it increases the metabolism and teaches the body not to store fat. I would have thought this fasting thing would have the opposite effect. I stand corrected if there are scientific studies that can back this up but it appears very "fad" to me.

dK

Apologies for quoting my own thread. I did a controlled fast a few months ago and made some great gains or should that be losses.

Sportvasten / May 7

Sportvasten by Fittergy

Sportvasten by fittergy

[quote name='dK' timestamp='1331286635' post='274136'] 
OK, here is a summary of the 10 day Sportvasten programme that I have just completed. (For those interested) 
 
The programme breaks down into 3 phases. 1) Food reduction 2)Fasting 3)Food build up. The objective is to 'switch' your body from using carbs as it's first choice fuel to using fat. The programme has 3 components, Exercise (timed, measured, focused), Diet (prescribed, measured) and Supplements (prescribed) . There were controls taken before, during and after. I had to take my measurements (weight, belly measurement) before and after, then photo's before, during, after (no these will not be shared) and urine test, before, during, after and a blood test at the time of the metabolic switch. 
 
Exercise is constant through out the programme and is a minimum of 20 minutes to a max of 30 minutes of exercise. There is a minimum wattage that needs to be attained and you need to work at between 80-90% of your max heart rate. All of these measures are personal to you (and the minimums differ between men & women), my HR range was 137-155. For me I used the stationery bike, and worked at a resistance of 14 at a rpm of min 90 for 30 minutes. I found this generated wattage of 180-200 and my HR was stable around 142-156. As I went through the programme, power in the legs started to reduce, so reduced resistance to 12 and maintained a 90-95rpm to generate similar results. 
 
Diet, I will come to in a moment. The supplements used were 'Metabolic Switch' - which is a combination of BCAA's, this was taken breakfast, lunch and dinner. 7gm in water, sipped over 3 hours. So 21gm over the day, constantly sipping through the day. Multi-vitamin, taken once per day in phase 1, not taken in phase 2 and taken twice per day (B,L) in phase 3. Fish oil taken 2 caps B,L & D per day and a Magnesium, Calcium Zinc supplement taken 1 cap B,L & D. 
 
Diet (to be followed exactly, but you can drink as much water, black coffee, green tea, or herbal tea (without black tea) as you want) 
[u][b]Phase 1 - Day 1[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 2 pieces of fruit and 250ml of fruit juice (all fruit juice has to be freshly squeezed, as bought juices have added sugar) + supplements 
Lunch - 100gm mixed salad, 1-2 tomatoes (I substituted for beetroot), 10 olives, and 2tsp olive oil. Salt, pepper and vinegar to taste + 50 gm pistachio nuts (in the shells) + supplements 
Dinner - 200gm wok greens + 50 gm pistachio nuts (in the shells) + supplements 
 
[u][b]Phase 1 - Day 2[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 2 pieces of fruit and 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Lunch - 200gm wok greens + 50 gm pistachio nuts (in the shells) + supplements 
Dinner - Soup - 100-150gm vegetables, with 500ml water with stock cube + supplements 
 
[u][b]Phase 1 - Day 3[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 250ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Lunch - 250ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Dinner - 250ml of fruit juice + supplements 
 
[u][b]Phase 2 - Day 1[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Lunch - 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Dinner - 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
 
[u][b]Phase 2 - Day 2[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Lunch - 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
Dinner - 150ml of fruit juice + supplements 
 
Day 3 of the fasting is only necessary if you have not completed the metabolic switch from burning carbs to burning fats. In my case I switched on day 2 and didn't need the extra day. The switch is identified by urine test and confirmed by blood test. 
 
 
[u][b]Phase 3 - Day 1[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 2 pieces of fruit + supplements 
Lunch - 100gm mixed salad, 10 olives, and 2tsp olive oil. Salt, pepper and vinegar to taste + 50 gm pistachio nuts (in the shells) + supplements 
Dinner - 200gm vegetables + 150gm protein, I used Chicken Breasts + supplements 
 
[u][b]Phase 3 - Day 2[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 1 piece of fruit, in plain low fat (no sugar added) yoghurt + supplements 
Lunch - 100gm mixed salad, 10 olives, and 2tsp olive oil. Salt, pepper and vinegar to taste + 50 gm pistachio nuts (in the shells) + supplements 
Dinner - 200gm vegetables + 150gm protein, I used Chicken Breasts + supplements 
 
[u][b]Phase 3 - Day 3[/b][/u] 
Breakfast - 2 pieces of fruit, in plain low fat (no sugar added) yoghurt + supplements 
Lunch - 100gm mixed salad, 10 olives, and 2tsp olive oil. Salt, pepper and vinegar to taste + 50 gm pistachio nuts (in the shells) + supplements 
Dinner - 200gm vegetables + 150gm protein, I used Chicken Breasts + supplements 
[/quote]

BartMan

Hey dk, you did that in one short period of time to get results, and then now (I guess) eat a little more normally? You're not into a lifestyle of fasting and that jazz now through until you shuffle off this mortal coil. 
 
Sure starving yourself is going to work (I mean, fasting) to lose weight, you just need to make sure that you force your body to burn fat stores, not muscle stores. You managed that by doing it right dk, monitored and all that jazz. 
 
I think for we mortals, eat less than you use = lose weight. Eat more = gain weight. When you get into the athlete class then you need to make sure the weight you gain and lose is the right weight! But for Ma and Pa kettle, both a little overweight, just have one less Tim Tam after dinner for starters, and work back from there.

JK

Its pretty simple way of looking at it Bart and more importantly IT WORKS. Well most of the time. My upper upper body is fairly lean....just that bloody gut to sort out - always the hardest and last place to lose it from. I guess it will just come with time if I continue doing what I am doing. I'm in no real rush afterall - still a fair few months until summer! 
 
 
Re lean gains, that approach appears more of a lifestyle rather than a short term diet. People seem to adopt the philosophy for long term and as a result stay fair;y lean year round and even manage to put on muscle in doing so. But I think it still all comes back to managing your caloric intake whether it be over 8 hours of say 14hours (given 10 should be sleeping) like most of us do. 
 
I know its totally against the 6 smaller meals a day approach that has been drummed in to us in recent times but there is some good reading available against that approach with research etc to support http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html . Worth a read. 
 
I'm in the same camp as most at the moment in that I'm not sold on it but from the experiences I've read about on line, pretty much all that have given this approach a go dont turn back to their dieting approaches of before and speak of being leaner and stronger than ever. I'm almost considering giving it a go for a month or so to see if there really is any benefit to it. Hard thing as always will be comparing actual results with what progress I might have made without making the change and just continuing on with what I am doing now. I suspect it there will be no significant differences, just a different approach in which case no gain or loss (other than my beloved proats for breakfast!!) Could it be worth a punt?

The Silver Fern

Lean gains / intermittent fasting

Sportvasten by Fittergy