Foe Cross Fit Fans
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359870898' post='341423']<br />
Did you pat yourself on the back every time you wrote cheat?<br />
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Cheat is a standard exercise term. Kipping is a cheat variation of traditional pull ups. Just like assisted pull ups are, or jumping to just do the negative etc etc<br />
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359870898' post='341423']Who is confused by the way? CrossFitters know what we are doing, and someone training their lats in the gym knows what they are doing. Don't see much confusion there myself.<br />
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Well except maybe your confusion about being able to pick what pull-up technique you want in a xFit workout.[/quote]<br />
I don't understand whats so difficult to understand that the two exercises are different. Therefore you shouldn't use the term interchangeably<br />
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If you did 150 lady push ups on your knees, that's very different from doing 150 real push ups. Push ups is the name for the traditional strict movement. The cheat movement is also a push up but for clarity it should be stated that you did an easier variation. -
[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359872158' post='341430']<br />
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Are handstand push ups a good exercise mate? Are they a viable alternative to say military presses? I know they're bloody tough.<br />
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They are easier than a press (even when done strict). I can press 70kg x 1, but I can do 10/11 handstand push-ups and I weigh around 81kg. <br />
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Works your core as well, and it's something different. Can do it at home too. -
wouldnt get as deep in the handstand push ups though would you, with the old noggin getting in the way, so movement is somewhat limited I'd of thought?
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[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359872389' post='341431']<br />
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Cheat is a standard exercise term. Kipping is a cheat variation of traditional pull ups. Just like assisted pull ups are, or jumping to just do the negative etc etc<br />
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I don't understand whats so difficult to understand that the two exercises are different. Therefore you shouldn't use the term interchangeably<br />
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If you did 150 lady push ups on your knees, that's very different from doing 150 real push ups. Push ups is the name for the traditional strict movement. The cheat movement is also a push up but for clarity it should be stated that you did an easier variation.<br />
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Again, who is confused? <br />
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Push-ups is a bad example as well, plenty of variations on those too - all push-ups. Remember, you started off saying that kipping pull-ups weren't even pull-ups, which is just wrong. -
[quote name='taniwharugby' timestamp='1359872647' post='341433']<br />
wouldnt get as deep in the handstand push ups though would you, with the old noggin getting in the way, so movement is somewhat limited I'd of thought?<br />
[/quote]<br />
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True. Although I did see the crazy workouts in the Games set up plates for your hands so your head could go lower. Bugger that <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> -
ah now that would make it tough I reckon!<br />
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I do like alot of the variations that Crossfit employs, that said, I do know they are slightly different, and still use stricter forms in most of my workouts...I dont really have anywhere to do proper pull ups or the kipping ones (assume these are the ones where you use momentum to get up) and TBPH, I suck at pull ups, so is easier for me to do assisted ones to target my lats, keep form and do lots! -
[quote name='taniwharugby' timestamp='1359873067' post='341436']<br />
ah now that would make it tough I reckon!<br />
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I do like alot of the variations that Crossfit employs, that said, I do know they are slightly different, and still use stricter forms in most of my workouts...I dont really have anywhere to do proper pull ups or the kipping ones (assume these are the ones where you use momentum to get up) and TBPH, I suck at pull ups, so is easier for me to do assisted ones to target my lats, keep form and do lots!<br />
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Just make sure you don't call them pull-ups otherwise you'll get a tedious lecture. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359872769' post='341434']Again, who is confused?[/quote]<br />
I get that its a convention in crossfit to use the term loosely. That doesn't make it correct. Saying you did x number of pullups means something to the rest of the fitness world. That is very different from saying I did x number of kipping pullups<br />
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You said yourself that the variation is easier. By omitting that you did a cheat variation it's at best inaccurate<br />
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359872769' post='341434']Push-ups is a bad example as well, plenty of variations on those too - all push-ups. [/quote]<br />
I said that in my post. Thats exactly why I used that example -
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[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359872402' post='341432']<br />
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They are easier than a press (even when done strict). I can press 70kg x 1, but I can do 10/11 handstand push-ups and I weigh around 81kg. <br />
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Works your core as well, and it's something different. Can do it at home too.[/quote]<br />
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There's no way handstand pushups are easier than press. Wait, are we talking about handstand pushups or "kipping"? -
After reading the debate between Duluth and Kirwan, I'd have to say both are correct.<br />
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In crossfit, you do push ups, but its up to you what variation you do (proper or variation, whatever you need to do to get it done)<br />
However, while writing up what exercises I did, I wouldnt say I did 50 push ups, because that would be misleading.. I would be more specific.. (which is what Duluth is getting at)<br />
30 diamond push ups + 20 push ups..<br />
Which is very different to 20 push ups + 15 snake push ups + 15 lady push ups<br />
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That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
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My mate running the session said that most people do the harder exercise first and if they get tired they do the easier exercise, and so forth until they get to lady push ups..<br />
A lot of them are obsessed with how quick they do it, so form isn't really factor. -
[quote name='V-Diddy' timestamp='1359874963' post='341447']<br />
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There's no way handstand pushups are easier than press. Wait, are we talking about handstand pushups or "kipping"?<br />
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Strict <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> I'm just basing it on the weights I can do, and what I weigh and the reps I can do with the HSPUs. <br />
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I'm not saying they are easy, just that I can do more of them at higher weight than my press. So I find them easier. -
[quote name='mimic' timestamp='1359876974' post='341466']<br />
That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
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I guess in here is the perfect place to make shit up about what you can do in terms of weight or numbers, most will never find out.<br />
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But if I dont do an exercise that isnt what most would deem it to be, I'd not call it that (see my thread were I said I do assisted pull ups) I mean I make names up on exercises I dont know the name of <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /><br />
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I dont see the point of making shit up as I kinda use this as a diary of sorts so if I lie here, I am also kidding myself.<br />
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I draw little diagrams in my paper diary if I vary and need to remember exactly how I did it if I am trying different things. -
[quote name='mimic' timestamp='1359876974' post='341466']<br />
After reading the debate between Duluth and Kirwan, I'd have to say both are correct.<br />
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In crossfit, you do push ups, but its up to you what variation you do (proper or variation, whatever you need to do to get it done)<br />
However, while writing up what exercises I did, I wouldnt say I did 50 push ups, because that would be misleading.. I would be more specific.. (which is what Duluth is getting at)<br />
30 diamond push ups + 20 push ups..<br />
Which is very different to 20 push ups + 15 snake push ups + 15 lady push ups<br />
<br />
That would clear up the confusion.. (not from training, but from people who brag about how many push ups they did when really is was girls ones.. similar to people who say they can squat 200kgs when they don't even get to parallel)<br />
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My mate running the session said that most people do the harder exercise first and if they get tired they do the easier exercise, and so forth until they get to lady push ups..<br />
A lot of them are obsessed with how quick they do it, so form isn't really factor.<br />
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Yeah thats basically that is what I was saying about Crossfit introducing some confusion.<br />
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Put it this way. If you spoke to a non crossfitter about how many pull ups you could do, they would assume you are talking about the traditional exercise.<br />
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According to Kirwan, in crossfit its assumed you are talking about kipping unless otherwise stated. Thats arse about face. The variation from the norm should be explicitly stated (although in crossfit apparently the norm is kipping hence them creating confusion) -
fark, I've never gone bum to floor, even less keen since I had issues with my knee ligaments in 1998, always try to get angle of calf-hammies to less than 90
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[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359877784' post='341473']<br />
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Yeah thats basically that is what I was saying about Crossfit introducing some confusion.<br />
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Put it this way. If you spoke to a non crossfitter about how many pull ups you could do, they would assume you are talking about the traditional exercise.<br />
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According to Kirwan, in crossfit its assumed you are talking about kipping unless otherwise stated. Thats arse about face. The variation from the norm should be explicitly stated (although in crossfit apparently the norm is kipping hence them creating confusion)<br />
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Now you are just being silly. That's not what I said at all, but you know that. <br />
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I said when they prescribe pull-ups, you can choose with technique to use. It's assumed you'll choose the most efficient method to get the work done. <br />
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The generalisation you made is wrong another way as well, xFitters make the distinction between what type of kipping they use, yet alone what type of pull-up (butterfly or regular). <br />
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In their "marketing and hype" as you call it on ESPN, they introduce the CrossFit Games with videos about what the sport is. one of these explains kipping pull-ups and why they use them, so who would be confused by that? It's very clear what pull-ups they are doing. <br /> -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359864823' post='341387']<br />
Context is everything, and in xFit it's assumed when there are large number of pull-ups you'll be kipping them.<br />
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Thats why I said according to Kirwan its assumed in crossfit you will be kipping -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359878829' post='341482']<br />
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Seriously, you still don't understand? Yes, as I've said it's assumed you'll do the most efficient version you are skilled enough to do. That's very different to saying the term is used loosely or it's assumed you're talking about kipping when you say pull-up. Because I've made that clear in my previous posts. <br />
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If THEY say pull-up, YOU can choose the variation. If they say dead hang pull-up, then you can't choose. When they want a specific pull-up technique, they state it. Doesn't seem loose, or confusing to me. <br />
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I can't make it any clearer , but I suspect you are just playing "have the last word". Yawn. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359879620' post='341485']<br />
Seriously, you still don't understand? Yes, as I've said it's assumed you'll do the most efficient version you are skilled enough to do. That's very different to saying the term is used loosely or it's assumed you're talking about kipping when you say pull-up. Because I've made that clear in my previous posts.<br />
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If THEY say pull-up, YOU can choose the variation. If they say dead hang pull-up, then you can't choose. When they want a specific pull-up technique, they state it. Doesn't seem loose, or confusing to me.[/quote]<br />
I understand all of that. That is the way crossfit does things.<br />
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However I simply pointed out that crossfitters use the generic term even when referring to a cheat variation. The response was this:<br />
[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Context is everything, and in xFit it's assumed when there are large number of pull-ups you'll be kipping them. Same with muscle ups, handstand push-ups, large numbers of ring dips, bar muscle ups, the list goes on. [/font][/color]<br />
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[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]When I'm posting workouts i'll not be posting "kipping", same as I don't post squat snatch, or hand release push ups, or how I'm cycling my box jumps (although I record that info in my personal log). [/font][/color]<br />
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[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Basically, I figure most people am aware I'm doing xFit workouts.[/font][/color][/quote]<br />
Which is fine. Thats the way crossfit does things. However if you use the generic term pull up to a normal person they assume you are talking about the traditional version of the exercise not a cheat variation. Thats where the confusion comes from.