Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5
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I'm not really suggesting Gatland moved them all the way to the top, because especially then he wasn't too innovative with the backs.
But he seemed to bring in a harder edge somehow. Instead of running around like fierce headless chooks, the pack started to operate as a pack.
It's why I think he'd be excellent at the Blues. They don't need finesse at this point.
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@pot-hale said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
@nzzp said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
Very good work PH, great to get a perspective from outside the long white cloud.
The three tours this time are going to be crackers. France are never easy, and are one NH side that don't seem to have a mental block about playing NZ in NZ.
The SA Eng games could make or break a coach - either way, there is loads riding on it.
Aus Ire shoudl be cracking tight games. Should be great to watch.
Agreed. When the Tour schedule came out in 2010, these were the ones that I thought were the most balanced and competitive. You’re quite right about the French - they simply don’t seem to buy into the nerves of an NZ tour.
SA v Eng has lots of matching styles and colonial clashes. Aus v Irl will be a Paddy Love/Hate/Love fest. I’ve loads of mates going down, and am still thinking about it myself (never been).Sorry in advance to lads (and maybe factor into your multi's). Last AB's game I went to in NZ was vs France at Carisbrook. We lost from memory.Last two in Aussie I have been to were Abs vs Aussie in syd2015(loss)and suncorp last year.
Will be in dunedin this year....
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@chester-draws said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
I'm not really suggesting Gatland moved them all the way to the top, because especially then he wasn't too innovative with the backs.
But he seemed to bring in a harder edge somehow. Instead of running around like fierce headless chooks, the pack started to operate as a pack.
It's why I think he'd be excellent at the Blues. They don't need finesse at this point.
I think I’m confused by your original comment/question about the person in charge between 2002 and 2009 being responsible. Eddie O’Sullivan was coach from 2001-2008.
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@pot-hale
Well, that serves me right for checking on my phone that I got the right details. The page on Gatland didn't line the dates up right.
So, having not used my phone this time, I now have the correct dates.
I think the turn-around dated from Gatland, not O'Sullivan. I followed his career closely at the time because I was so pissed off with the Chiefs letting him go and keeping Foster.
By the time Gatland was sacked he got them to inches from winning the 6 Nations. They went from being smashed by the likes of the All Blacks to being a credible threat. There was a huge change, although we tend not to notice it now because results have continued to improve.
He couldn't get the politics right though.
Not that it was necessarily just him or O'Sullivan. The other huge contributor was the restructuring of European rugby. Professionalism, like Argentina, allowed the sport to be properly developed. Having Irish provinces in the Heineken Cup was a major benefit, helping to stem the flow overseas. Close attention to contracting, which is easier when your provinces are successful, followed.
While the coaches are key, back-room stuff is important too.
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@chester-draws said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
@pot-hale
Well, that serves me right for checking on my phone that I got the right details. The page on Gatland didn't line the dates up right.
So, having not used my phone this time, I now have the correct dates.
I think the turn-around dated from Gatland, not O'Sullivan. I followed his career closely at the time because I was so pissed off with the Chiefs letting him go and keeping Foster.
By the time Gatland was sacked he got them to inches from winning the 6 Nations. They went from being smashed by the likes of the All Blacks to being a credible threat. There was a huge change, although we tend not to notice it now because results have continued to improve.
He couldn't get the politics right though.
Not that it was necessarily just him or O'Sullivan. The other huge contributor was the restructuring of European rugby. Professionalism, like Argentina, allowed the sport to be properly developed. Having Irish provinces in the Heineken Cup was a major benefit, helping to stem the flow overseas. Close attention to contracting, which is easier when your provinces are successful, followed.
While the coaches are key, back-room stuff is important too.
Yep back room stuff was very important. The decision by IRFU to enter the provinces into the Celtic League in 2001/02 helped enormously, and brought home a number of players, along with introducing Category A central contracts for a small number of players. O’Sullivan was Gatland’s backs coach and it was his inventive back plays that led to some of the new success that Ireland enjoyed and likely what got him the top job when Gatland got ousted. O’Sullivan and an IRFU guy, Eddie Wigglesworth, came up with the idea of the playing limit times of 25 games max in 2004, and those have been in place ever since. Although going by some UK media stories earlier this year, you’d swear they were only invented last September... 😏
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@Pot-Hale, and for that matter, any other Irish 'Ferners, will you be making a journey to Aus to support your team?
The reason I'm asking as myself and a good Irish-Aussie mate are planning on attending the Sydney test at Allianz Stadium on the 23rd of June and would be keen for a pre/post match TFS drink.
Doesn't have to be on game day either.
Can't recall Sydney 'Fern gathering for quite some time.
Cheers
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@roninwc said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
@Pot-Hale, and for that matter, any other Irish 'Ferners, will you be making a journey to Aus to support your team?
The reason I'm asking as myself and a good Irish-Aussie mate are planning on attending the Sydney test at Allianz Stadium on the 23rd of June and would be keen for a pre/post match TFS drink.
Doesn't have to be on game day either.
Can't recall Sydney 'Fern gathering for quite some time.
Cheers
@NTA needs no excuse to escape Western Sydney for a pint
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Just announced.
Two further possible new caps - Beirne and Byrne.
Ireland Squad (Summer Tour 2018, Australia)
Props
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 23 caps; Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 78 caps; Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 47 caps; Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps; John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 13 capsHookers
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps; Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain 111 caps; Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 61 capsLocks
Tadhg Beirne (ScarletsMunster) uncapped; Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps; James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 8 caps; Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 58 capsBackrowers
Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 38 caps; Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 9 caps; Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/LeinsterUlster) 20 caps; Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 7 caps; Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 47 caps; CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 23 capsNo 9
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 21 caps; Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 64 caps; John Cooney (Terenure College RFC/Ulster) 1 capOut-halves
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) uncapped; Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 10 caps; Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 73 capsMidfielders
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 33 caps; Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 7 caps; Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 13 capsBack three
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 67 caps; Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 3 caps; Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahnch/Ulster) 9 caps; Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 6 caps; Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 83 capsFIXTURES
Saturday 9th June, 2018
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)
Saturday 16th June, 2018
AAMI Park, Melbourne, KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL)
Saturday 23rd June, 2018
Allianz Park, Sydney KO 20.05 local (11.05 IRL) -
@pot-hale said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
Beirne and Byrne.
Are Beirne and Byrne pronounced differently?
Second question, what is the IRFU's policy on overseas players? Picking a guy from Scarlets, is he returning to an Irish province next year?
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@rapido said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
@pot-hale said in Paddy on Tour Down Under - Number 5:
Beirne and Byrne.
Are Beirne and Byrne pronounced differently?
Second question, what is the IRFU's policy on overseas players? Picking a guy from Scarlets, is he returning to an Irish province next year?
Nope - Byrne, Beirne, Burn all sound like Burn. There's actually 4 Byrnes in Leinster and when they play together it makes fun listening to see if the commentator gets Byrne bingo. They managed it once last season when one Byrne brother passed to another (hooker and prop) who passed to Ross Byrne at 10 who made a cross field which was caught by Adam Byrne to score.
Tadgh Beirne was a Leinster player, got a long-term injury, contract not renewed and decided to try his luck with Scarlets. It worked and Munster persuaded him to come back for next season. He becomes a Munster player next Monday - after the final.
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How much does Joe love thee, Webb Ellis Cup? Let me count the ways. 5 full-backs, 11 wingers, 10 midfielders, 6 out-halves, 5 scrum-halves, 3 loose-heads, 7 hookers, 5 tight-heads, 9 locks and 11 back-rowers. 72 and counting. That’s the number of players that Joe Schmidt has selected - for trial and on experience - since the start of the 2016 Six Nations right up this week’s announcement of the 32-man Ireland Tour Squad for Australia.
If ever the phrase, ‘never die wondering’, matched a man’s purpose, Joe Schmidt is your guy. His Oz squad has 2 more uncapped players for use during the month of June. It’s been a twisting, turning road at times as his unending search for talent has looked at every player available to him within the Irish system and playing in Ireland, capping over 30 players in the last two seasons. In comparison, Michael Cheika has blooded 20 new players in the test arena since Australia finished runners-up at the 2015 World Cup.
So let’s put the spotlight on his young bloods - the players whose names may not be so familiar to Southern fans, but who could likely be running out on Aussie tracks next month to prepare them better for Japan next year. All of them are 26 or younger. I’ll included links to video clips, where available (made by others so apologies in advance for any unwelcome music, over-exuberant editing, etc)
Rob Kearney (83 caps) at full-back is having a new lease of life this season and is now the Irish player with most honours, including 4 Six Nations titles (2 Grand Slams), 3 PRO 12 titles, and 4 European Cup medals. Sitting on the bench to replace him at some point might be Schmidt’s most recent cap selection, hot-stepper, 20-year old, Jordan Larmour - young, raw and exciting to watch, he’ll get a lot of learning on his first tour - even if he doesn’t play much of a part.
Alternatively, Munster’s Andrew Conway (6 caps) is a calm presence at the back, yet spiky and aggressive in defence, with an unexpected shift of speed on the wing that keeps him scoring tries, particularly this one for Munster to defeat Toulon in the European Cup
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Winger, 67 cap Keith Earls, was named Ireland Player’s Player of the Season with his pace as good as ever, and his save-the-day tackling during the Six Nations.
He’ll likely be playing with try-wunderkind, Jacob Stockdale, a 22-year old who broke into the Ireland team last November and hasn’t stopped scoring since - 11 tries in his 9 caps setting a new 6 Nations try-record along the way in the Grand Slam finale against England in Twickenham. He’s big, he’s fast, nimble, an eye for an intercept, and pretty handy in midfield or at 15 if it’s required.
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Wallabies named. Almost zero experience at hooker. Apparently Samu may be added when/if NZRU allow.
WALLABIES SQUAD
Hookers: Folau Fainga’a, Brandon Paenga-Amosa, Jordan Uelese
Props: Sekope Kepu, Tom Robertson, Scott Sio, Taniela Tupou, Allan Alaalatoa
Locks: Izack Rodda, Adam Coleman, Rob Simmons, Rory Arnold
Backrowers: Michael Hooper (c), David Pocock, Caleb Timu, Lukhan Tui, Ned Hanigan
Halfbacks: Will Genia, Nick Phipps, Joe Powell
Five-eighths: Bernard Foley
Centres: Kurtley Beale, Samu Kerevi, Tevita Kuridrani, Curtis Rona
Outside backs: Israel Folau, Tom Banks, Dane Haylett-Petty, Reece Hodge, Jack Maddocks, Marika Koroibete, Sefa Naivalu
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Wallabies squad:
Forwards
Allan Alaalatoa (23 Tests, Brumbies, 24)
Rory Arnold (15 Tests, Brumbies, 27)
Adam Coleman (20 Tests, Melbourne Rebels, 26)
Folau Fainga’a* (uncapped, Brumbies, 23)
Ned Hanigan (12 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 23)
Michael Hooper (c) (79 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 26)
Sekope Kepu (91 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 32)
Brandon Paenga-Amosa* (uncapped, Queensland Reds, 22)
David Pocock (66 Tests, Brumbies, 30)
Tom Robertson (18 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 23)
Rob Simmons (82 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 29)
Scott Sio (43 Tests, Brumbies, 26)
Izack Rodda (4 Tests, Queensland Reds, 21)
Caleb Timu* (uncapped, Queensland Reds, 24)
Lukhan Tui (4 Tests, Queensland Reds, 21)
Taniela Tupou (1 Test, Queensland Reds, 22)
Jordan Uelese (2 Tests, Melbourne Rebels, 21)Backs
Tom Banks* (uncapped, Brumbies, 23)
Kurtley Beale (71 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 29)
Israel Folau (62 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 29)
Bernard Foley (vc) (55, NSW Waratahs, 28)
Will Genia (vc) (88 Tests, Melbourne Rebels, 30)
Dane Haylett-Petty (18 Tests, Melbourne Rebels, 28)
Reece Hodge (24, Melbourne Rebels, 23)
Samu Kerevi (18 Tests, Queensland Reds, 24)
Marika Koroibete (8 Tests, Melbourne Rebels, 25)
Tevita Kuridrani (58 Tests, Brumbies, 27)
Jack Maddocks* (uncapped, Melbourne Rebels, 21)
Sefanaia Naivalu (7 Tests, Melbourne Rebels, 26)
Nick Phipps (61 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 29)
Joe Powell (3 Tests, Brumbies, 24)
Curtis Rona (3 Tests, NSW Waratahs, 26)*denotes uncapped player
Samu still in limbo as Cheika names June Series squad
Crusaders backrower Pete Samu has not been named in Michael Cheika's June Series squad, but still remains a chance of playing for the Wallabies this season. Samu signed a two-year deal with the Brumbies this week, making the Melbourne-born forward eligible for the Wallabies, pending a release from New Zealand Rugby, due to his Super Rugby contract obligations. It's a decision NZR said on Tuesday they were still mulling over and on Wednesday night, when Cheika named his squad, he said he couldn't pick Samu, but the backrower had a spot in the squad should he be released. There is no deadline for NZR to approve Rugby Australia's request to release Samu for June, leaving both he and the Wallabies in limbo, though Cheika said he hoped there would be more clarity on the decision on Thursday. "I've been told I can't select him but there is a spot for him there," Cheika said. "At this point, the decision's in other hands. I'm not really involved in that part of it but I'm hoping that there'll be some more clarity about that tomorrow." Should that clearance not come, Lukhan Tui is likely to don the no. 6 in the first Test, with first-choice blindside Ned Hanigan not expected to be back from a knee injury until the second Test. Uncapped Caleb Timu is another option to fill the back row alongside David Pocock and Michael Hooper, but he would most likely slot in at eight.Reds backrower Timu is one of five uncapped players in the squad, with perhaps Brumbies fullback Tom Banks the biggest surprise of the potential debutants in the group named for the June Series. Banks had two of his best games in the side's recent South Africa tour, scoring the game-turner against the Bulls in Pretoria last weekend. Rebels rising star Jack Maddocks is another new face in the backs, confirming his widely-expected inclusion in the squad, after a sensational start to the season in Melbourne. The wing spots were among the most-hotly contested, with Maddocks and Banks beating out seasoned winger Henry Speight as well as Queensland's Izaia Perese, who was on the verge of a Test debut in 2017, and giant Waratahs winger Taqele Naiyaravoro.etc etc
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@nta You seem to churn out decent locks on a regular basis.
Where do you see the strengths and weaknesses in the forwards? From outside, I don't know the front row form, and the backrow with Pocock and Hooper can be unbalanced (white dwarves can't jump or carry)
