Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?
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@Chris-B said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@mariner4life Of course we do. Without Wayne Smith there - are you really going to leave it to Foster?
cheap shot
Foster was a decent 10, maybe he can waddle on?
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@mariner4life Personally, I'd pick Wayne Smith and Foxy ahead of me as well, but I don't see them putting their hands up!
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@Chris-B said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@mariner4life Personally, I'd pick Wayne Smith and Foxy ahead of me as well, but I don't see them putting their hands up!
yea, that's shit from them really. In times of manufactured crisis, everybody needs to hypothetically pitch in
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Was quite interesting watching all of Hunt, Ioane, McKenzie and Black playing this weekend - most of the contenders.
Have to say, Ioane was the one who clearly stood out. He faded a bit in the last fifteen minutes or so, but based on what I saw I'm inclined to jump ship on Otere Black.
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@Chris-B said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
Was quite interesting watching all of Hunt, Ioane, McKenzie and Black playing this weekend - most of the contenders.
Have to say, Ioane was the one who clearly stood out. He faded a bit in the last fifteen minutes or so, but based on what I saw I'm inclined to jump ship on Otere Black.
Ioane has come a looooong way from the start of the season, where he was as much of a liability as Li. He's looking very comfortable now, it's great to see. Based on last weekend I'm a lot happier with the AB options if he carries on in that manner.
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@mariner4life said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
I don't mind the boy at the Highlanders, i think he has the building blocks.
all over it.
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@Chris-B said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
Have to say, Ioane was the one who clearly stood out. He faded a bit in the last fifteen minutes or so, but based on what I saw I'm inclined to jump ship on Otere Black.
Interestingly they are basically the same age. Otere obviously has had injuries, but will be interesting to see over the course of a season rather than one game.
Ioane played really well though- looked very good
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Short Ball podcast (I think it was) this week, although it may have been an earlier one as I am avoiding anything with the fucking Folau saga.
Sumo and and Ali Williams discussing DMac injury and creating a strawman argument about the hysteria of needing 3 first fives on the field at the same time.
I found this episode really annoying, and usually Sumo discusses things with more clarity of thought, I woudn't be surprised at a meandering stream of conciousness from Ali, but this was Sumo taking the lead.
As someone concerned about having only 3 test class 10s, now reduced to only 2, it is not because I want 3 playmakers in a matchday 23. It's because I have doubts there even will still be 2 of them still fit in 5 months time when the RWC is happening.
Best case scenario for me. Is Barrett and Mo'ouga stay fit and the 3rd 10 is a rookie who allows rotation v the minnows and any short term injury cover so Beauden doesn't get sent home for a 2 weeks strain. With the benefit of potentially giving our 2023 10 some tournament experience (if he ends up a keeper).
Taking only 2 10s to the tournament is a suggestion made only by Steve Hansen and complete morons. I'm hoping Steve suggesting it is a just a dry ruse by the driest comedian since Graham Henry. No excuse for the rest of youses.
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@African-Monkey said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Chester-Draws Yes I don't know why Tom Taylor didn't shift. Canterbury players are weird like that. Yes their culture is great which we hear about all the time but stuff like that is just plain stupid, similar to Dom Bird refusing to go to the Blues. They'd rather rot away on the bench or play club rugby instead of challenging themselves to benefit their careers and give the cop out excuse saying they'd rather learn off the guys starting ahead of them which gets them nowhere.
Bird made the ABs from Canterbury/the Crusaders and didn't advance after going to the Chiefs. Why the fuck would the dysfunctional Blues have been better for him?
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@Chester-Draws said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@SammyC said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Chester-Draws said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@rotated Of those Taylor was clearly in the frame and chose to leave, Sops is all about the Benjamin’s, Blyeendraal was a bit over hyped and did nothing of note, Ihaia never found his groove, and Anscombe was an average 10 for the Blues and an ok 15 for Chiefs.
Yep spot on. Can't recall when TT left but presumably there was a queue for the 10 jumper (Carter, Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga) and I'm pretty sure he wasn't playing a lot of 10 anyway, certainly not at Super Rugby level where Blackadder liked to use him as a thoroughly uninspiring fullback.
Tom Taylor refused to shift to the Blues, where he would have been a lock-in starter at #10. Instead he got shunted around the backline by Blackadder. Presumably he had his reasons for staying with Canterbury, but it made no sense to me.
Makes perfect sense to me. Look at what happened to Steven Brett
Nah, that's bullshit. Look what happened to Tom Taylor -- shovelled around the backline till he left the country, having never had a decent shot at making the ABs in his best positions. How'd that work out for him?
Stephen Brett's problem wasn't that he moved. It was that he wasn't as good as his boosters made out.
Maybe shifting might not have worked for Tom Taylor either. But he'll never know whether he could have made the big time with a decent run as a first choice.
Again, why would a team as dysfunctional as the Blues have been a better fit for Taylors' development than the Crusaders, albeit often out of position? This is the team that around the period you're referring to saw Nonu and Weepu come and go, Benji Marshall signed and tehe very ordinary Pat Lam replaced by the very, very ordinary JK as they consistently missed the play-offs. You reckon that would have helped his development and helped keep him in the NZ game?
Much better to remain at the Crusaders and take ones' chances wherever possible in the backline.
The issue was the queue for the ABs' 10 jersey.
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@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark He made the ABs at the Chiefs.
Bird having been a member of the Crusaders Wider Training Group in 2012 he was selected as a senior squad member for the 2013 Super Rugby season.[4][5] Bird was selected for the 2013 All Blacks wider training squad of 38 to train for the June test series against France and went on to make his international debut against Japan in November, starting for them in the 54-6 win before being replaced by Sam Whitelock.[6] Bird broke the record for tallest All Black in history on his debut, standing 1 cm taller than previous record holder, the now-retired Mark Cooksley. Bird made another appearance for the All Blacks one year later, starting against Scotland in a 24-16 win on the 2014 end-of-year tour after being called in as cover for Luke Romano.
Bird switched Super Rugby teams to the Chiefs for the 2016 Super Rugby season, forming a formidable locking partnership with All Blacks team-mate Brodie Retallick. Bird became a regular starter for the Chiefs, starting for them against the touring British and Irish Lions team in 2017, with the Chiefs losing to the Lions 34-6. Bird also went on to start in the knockout rounds but the Chiefs were eliminated from the competition in the semi-final against Bird's former team the Crusaders who went on to win the competition. After a solid Mitre 10 Cup campaign, Bird was re-selected for the All Blacks for the 2017 end-of-year tour afer three years' absence from international rugby. This came after Bird started against the All Blacks for the Barbarians in a 22-31 loss to the All Blacks. Bird started for the All Blacks against a French XV on 14 November and was not subbed off, with the All Blacks winning 28-23.
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@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark 🤔Like I said, he was a Chief when he last made the ABs.
Well, yeah if you like. But he made the ABs from the Crusaders and only later played a lone midweek game as a 'Chief' after a strong NPC for Canterbury.
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@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark 🤔Like I said, he was a Chief when he last made the ABs.
Well, yeah if you like. But he made the ABs from the Crusaders and only later played a lone midweek game as a 'Chief' after a strong NPC for Canterbury.
Well maybe next time you should specify - “made the ABs, played a test, directly after the super Comp had finished”. Well TBF that doesn’t work either as both the previous times he made the ABs was after the NPC.
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@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
Again, why would a team as dysfunctional as the Blues have been a better fit for Taylors' development than the Crusaders, albeit often out of position? This is the team that around the period you're referring to saw Nonu and Weepu come and go, Benji Marshall signed and tehe very ordinary Pat Lam replaced by the very, very ordinary JK as they consistently missed the play-offs. You reckon that would have helped his development and helped keep him in the NZ game?
Lots of other players made the ABs from that dysfunctional Blues outfit. Indeed it can be easier to shine if the players around you are rubbish.
If Taylor had played for the Blues, and looked good, he would have massively advanced his cause.
In a similar situation Cruden left the Hurricanes for an apparently poor Chiefs outfit. It turns out he was a major reason they became quite functional. And he leap-frogged the player in front of him as a result.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. Yes, it would have been a risk. But the situation at the Crusaders wasn't working for him, so why stay?
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@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@Nepia said in Who is the AB's 4th choice at 10?:
@shark 🤔Like I said, he was a Chief when he last made the ABs.
Well, yeah if you like. But he made the ABs from the Crusaders and only later played a lone midweek game as a 'Chief' after a strong NPC for Canterbury.
Well maybe next time you should specify - “made the ABs, played a test, directly after the super Comp had finished”. Well TBF that doesn’t work either as both the previous times he made the ABs was after the NPC.
Sorry, you're right. His career went forward in leaps and bounds after going to the Chiefs.
He was already an AB. The one game (not even a test) he played after two seasons with the Chiefs came on the back of an NPC with Canterbury.
The argument is would he have been better served by playing for the Blues? Well clearly his career didn't advance after going to the Chiefs who were a significantly more competitive and better organised franchise than the Blues, so Chester Draws argument he should have gone to the Blues is badly flawed.
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@shark My pedantry only extends to the facts. 😉
But TBH Bird should have left the Crusaders a lot earlier, he lacked a hard edge to his game while down there (unsure why as other players had it) but refound it at the Chiefs - which carried on to the Canterbury NPC team ...
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