All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
If that were the case then why would we predominantly select guys around 2m?
Cos a good big guy is always better than a good little guy.......
unless it comes to painting bottom skirting boards.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
If that were the case then why would we predominantly select guys around 2m?
Cos a good big guy is always better than a good little guy.......
unless it comes to painting bottom skirting boards.
Starting reading that last sentence and wondered where you were heading...
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
If that were the case then why would we predominantly select guys around 2m?
Look I don't know what argument you're looking for here, but good point. Why aren't we regularly selecting all the sub 2m locks that are a million times better than our taller ones?
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Whitelock-Retallick
It's like finding the new Richard Hadlee. You just ain't gonna.
But you'd have thought that about Jack-Williams, Whetton-Pierce, Whitelock-Thorn.
I do think there will be some rebuilding post 2019, and not just at lock.
And whilst I haven't looked that their dimensions I'm hoping IWL, McWhannel and Scrafton develop.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Yeetyaah I've obviously seen a bit of Dickson and I think he looks like he has the goods, like Franklin he's a bit undertall though.
Franklin is listed at 1.99m
Yep, many seem unimpressed with sub 2m. Not me, but our 2 current blokes are easily above this.
I think you need to have at least one bloke of the three in your 23, over 2m. Of course this can be influenced by the heights of your 6 and 8, but as a general rule.
In saying that, the 2017 Lions’ starting locks were only 1.96-1.98 or so.
If they win the lineout then who cares ?
Being tall and having very long arms is also an advantage when you have to counter a maul. You don't see too many 1.80 m forwards going through and over the opposition's maul to block the last holder of the ball and thus winning a turnover.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@MN5 said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Yeetyaah I've obviously seen a bit of Dickson and I think he looks like he has the goods, like Franklin he's a bit undertall though.
Franklin is listed at 1.99m
Yep, many seem unimpressed with sub 2m. Not me, but our 2 current blokes are easily above this.
I think you need to have at least one bloke of the three in your 23, over 2m. Of course this can be influenced by the heights of your 6 and 8, but as a general rule.
In saying that, the 2017 Lions’ starting locks were only 1.96-1.98 or so.
If they win the lineout then who cares ?
Being tall and having very long arms is also an advantage when you have to counter a maul. You don't see too many 1.80 m forwards going through and over the opposition's maul to block the last holder of the ball and thus winning a turnover.
No but you see blockbusters like Kaino fighting their way through the crowd to do the same.
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@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
If that were the case then why would we predominantly select guys around 2m?
Look I don't know what argument you're looking for here, but good point. Why aren't we regularly selecting all the sub 2m locks that are a million times better than our taller ones?
You appeared to be making a case for shorter locks based on jumping ability being as effective as 2m + guys. So I made the point that the ABs these days predominantly select 2m + guys. If it were true that jumping ability trumps height, then surely we wouldn't see them go for as many guys at 2m or taller.
Since 2002, off the top of my head:
Jack
Williams
Eaton
Ryan
Whitlock
Retallick
BirdAnd I'd say between them Williams, Jack, Eaton, Whitelock and Retallick have started the vast majority of tests in that period. Plenty of sub 2m guys have also played tests for sure, but I'd say only Brad Thorn started a good number.
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
If that were the case then why would we predominantly select guys around 2m?
Look I don't know what argument you're looking for here, but good point. Why aren't we regularly selecting all the sub 2m locks that are a million times better than our taller ones?
You appeared to be making a case for shorter locks based on jumping ability being as effective as 2m + guys. So I made the point that the ABs these days predominantly select 2m + guys. If it were true that jumping ability trumps height, then surely we wouldn't see them go for as many guys at 2m or taller.
Since 2002, off the top of my head:
Jack
Williams
Eaton
Ryan
Whitlock
Retallick
BirdAnd I'd say between them Williams, Jack, Eaton, Whitelock and Retallick have started the vast majority of tests in that period. Plenty of sub 2m guys have also played tests for sure, but I'd say only Brad Thorn started a good number.
I wasn't making a case for anything.
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@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
So you're not saying shorter locks can be as effective as - if not more so than - 2m+ guys? Because that's how that statement reads.
I pointed out that AB selection policy pretty much overwhelmingly refutes your assertion.
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
So you're not saying shorter locks can be as effective as - if not more so than - 2m+ guys? Because that's how that statement reads.
I pointed out that AB selection policy pretty much overwhelmingly refutes your assertion.
he's got you there @Bones. It's been a long time since Ian Jones and Robin Brooke were galloping around.
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
I made the point that the ABs these days predominantly select 2m + guys. If it were true that jumping ability trumps height, then surely we wouldn't see them go for as many guys at 2m or taller.
Since 2002, off the top of my head:
To be fair the lock selection in the past 16 years can be broadly catagorized as:
2004-2011 - Literally who is not injured.
2012-2019 - Rettalick/Whitelock.The only time in that period where they had a serious choice between the two groups was in 2011 where to be fair they were content with one 2 metre+ lock in Whitelock and paired him with Thorn while attempting to see if they could catch lightning in a bottle with Hoeata.
Having a quality third option in Read consistently in the side for the past 12 years has been a major part of the lineout equation too.
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In my eyes it's
Jones/Brooke - a bunch of okay players - Retallic/Whitelock
Lock really hasn't been a position of strength for AB rugby, certainly in the time i have been watching.
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
So you're not saying shorter locks can be as effective as - if not more so than - 2m+ guys? Because that's how that statement reads.
I pointed out that AB selection policy pretty much overwhelmingly refutes your assertion.
Yes I am saying that. No the AB selection "policy" does not refute that.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
In my eyes it's
Jones/Brooke - a bunch of okay players - Retallic/Whitelock
Ali Williams was close to, if not the best player not named McCaw or Carter in the 2008 squad before he was ravaged by injuries and legitimately held his own against Botha/Matfield.
A reasonable test for being a quality AB has been being arguably the best in the world at your position at some point and until the current crop locks and halfbacks have been a real struggle.
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@rotated said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
I made the point that the ABs these days predominantly select 2m + guys. If it were true that jumping ability trumps height, then surely we wouldn't see them go for as many guys at 2m or taller.
Since 2002, off the top of my head:
To be fair the lock selection in the past 16 years can be broadly catagorized as:
2004-2011 - Literally who is not injured.
2012-2019 - Rettalick/Whitelock.The only time in that period where they had a serious choice between the two groups was in 2011 where to be fair they were content with one 2 metre+ lock in Whitelock and paired him with Thorn while attempting to see if they could catch lightning in a bottle with Hoeata.
Having a quality third option in Read consistently in the side for the past 12 years has been a major part of the lineout equation too.
Jack was a good player and Boric woulda been better if he didn't retire hurt.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@rotated said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
I made the point that the ABs these days predominantly select 2m + guys. If it were true that jumping ability trumps height, then surely we wouldn't see them go for as many guys at 2m or taller.
Since 2002, off the top of my head:
To be fair the lock selection in the past 16 years can be broadly catagorized as:
2004-2011 - Literally who is not injured.
2012-2019 - Rettalick/Whitelock.The only time in that period where they had a serious choice between the two groups was in 2011 where to be fair they were content with one 2 metre+ lock in Whitelock and paired him with Thorn while attempting to see if they could catch lightning in a bottle with Hoeata.
Having a quality third option in Read consistently in the side for the past 12 years has been a major part of the lineout equation too.
Jack was a good player and Boric woulda been better if he didn't retire hurt.
No mention of Chresten Davis?
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@shark said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@Bones said in All Blacks locking stocks post 2019 RWC:
@shark I'm not that fussed by height, who's to say the shorter lock can't jump higher anyway?
So you're not saying shorter locks can be as effective as - if not more so than - 2m+ guys? Because that's how that statement reads.
I pointed out that AB selection policy pretty much overwhelmingly refutes your assertion.
Brad Thorn was a far better lock than Dom Bird.
Height isn’t everything.
