Planes
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
I don't know how nervous I would be? I am always more nervous on take off than landing as I know they have all that power to go to in case something goes wrong on decent.
Not so much spare power when taking off.
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PAH - Pretty standard Wellington landing......
Funnily enough, worst one I've had was in Dublin. Fun watching out my window at the approaching runway. City airport can be pretty dicey on the descent eh, have had some massive, prolonged shuddering and jolts a few times there.
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@Bones worst for me was flying into Auckland, i reckon the wing if our 747 touched the ground before the wheels.
My father who watched us land thought the wing must have been close to touching the ground too.
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@Snowy would have the pilots manually landed that??
Yes. Autoland limits in an A340 were 30 head, 20 cross, 10 tail. It won't be much different in an A380 (25 cross, I think) and that was way greater than a 25kt x-wind so has to be done manually. It was also too turbulent to use auto land.
He actually made a mess of that and didn't "kick out" the drift before touchdown which puts large sideloads on the main undercarriage. it is pretty hard to get it spot on though. Some large aircraft with steerable main bogeys will line the wheels up down the runway (to an extent) by using the ILS beam, even though the fuse is crabbed. This relieves the side load and means the pilot doesn't have to time his rudder input so well. C5 has this I think. 747s and probably 777 too.
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
@Bones worst for me was flying into Auckland, i reckon the wing if our 747 touched the ground before the wheels.
My father who watched us land thought the wing must have been close to touching the ground too.
The geometry means that the engine nacelles will hit before the wing, which is why large jets don't drop the into wind wing for a cross wind landing, like smaller / prop planes.
Pod strikes aren't all that rare though, especially in 4 engine jets like the 747.
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@Snowy we were on a pretty insane angle...but yeah I expect it'd be tough for the wings to touch, but I tells ya it felt like it!
Those big old birds are such a marvel of technology!
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@Hooroo that's nuts
@Machpants @Snowy maybe able to shed more light on it.
Not a lot from me. I never saw it, they had stopped before the Air expo in Mangere in 1992 which had the Harrier there. Only comment would be that a barrel roll (when done properly) is a 1g manoeuvre so a better option than most others. Have seen it done with a glass of water that didn't spill a drop. Here is Bob Hoover doing it (he is a display legend).
@Hooroo Do you know what happened with the accident? I remember it but don't know what went wrong.
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
@Snowy we were on a pretty insane angle...but yeah I expect it'd be tough for the wings to touch, but I tells ya it felt like it!
Those big old birds are such a marvel of technology!
Yeah they are. Doesn't matter how much I know about the physics, they really still shouldn't fly.
You may well have scraped a pod, it usually glances off the runway and corrects the aircraft attitude pretty quickly! Expensive repair though and people do usually hear it or notice it.
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@Snowy would have the pilots manually landed that??
Yes. Autoland limits in an A340 were 30 head, 20 cross, 10 tail. It won't be much different in an A380 (25 cross, I think) and that was way greater than a 25kt x-wind so has to be done manually. It was also too turbulent to use auto land.
He actually made a mess of that and didn't "kick out" the drift before touchdown which puts large sideloads on the main undercarriage. it is pretty hard to get it spot on though. Some large aircraft with steerable main bogeys will line the wheels up down the runway (to an extent) by using the ILS beam, even though the fuse is crabbed. This relieves the side load and means the pilot doesn't have to time his rudder input so well. C5 has this I think. 747s and probably 777 too.
Ha ha! I love that this has been answered so concisely.
Thanks mate. I'm not left wondering one little thing from that as I can mentally picture everything you wrote. -
@Snowy forgot to ask, why did the plane go off onto the grass?
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
@Snowy forgot to ask, why did the plane go off onto the grass?
I really don't know. Can only assume that they were so busy pissing themselves and picking their undies out of their bums that they weren't watching where they were going.
When I saw it first I thought there was a rapid exit taxiway there, but there can't be because the lights are all wrong. It really should have just sunk in, they normally do. I also wondered if he had damaged the nosewheel steering, but then he should have just stopped. He also turns at the end of the video so it must be working.
So all up - I don't have a bloody clue other than, he really had shat himself and lost the plot.
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@Snowy my theory was that the wheels were so hot they got off onto the wet grass
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
@Snowy forgot to ask, why did the plane go off onto the grass?
I really don't know. Can only assume that they were so busy pissing themselves and picking their undies out of their bums that they weren't watching where they were going.
When I saw it first I thought there was a rapid exit taxiway there, but there can't be because the lights are all wrong. It really should have just sunk in, they normally do. I also wondered if he had damaged the nosewheel steering, but then he should have just stopped. He also turns at the end of the video so it must be working.
So all up - I don't have a bloody clue other than, he really had shat himself and lost the plot.
Would that have been the last time he flew that plane? Isn't it pretty much, one strike and you're out for these types of control events?
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
@Snowy forgot to ask, why did the plane go off onto the grass?
I really don't know. Can only assume that they were so busy pissing themselves and picking their undies out of their bums that they weren't watching where they were going.
When I saw it first I thought there was a rapid exit taxiway there, but there can't be because the lights are all wrong. It really should have just sunk in, they normally do. I also wondered if he had damaged the nosewheel steering, but then he should have just stopped. He also turns at the end of the video so it must be working.
So all up - I don't have a bloody clue other than, he really had shat himself and lost the plot.
That bit is pretty key for pilots without a lot of military, or small plane experience. Military do things that are borderline crzay in training and especially ops*, small a/c pilots do stupid shit all the time in their work (watch some top dressing pilots with 10k hours - nuts!). So when things go really shit shaped, they have much better capacity to deal with it. No matter how much emergencies and stuff you do in the sim, it's not the same as the real thing.
*in addition military a/c break all the time so heaps of real emergencies and failures to hone your skills on - not like a modern ME jet!
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Yeah, a few thousand hours mountain flying in PNG helps too. Fucking cray airstrips and as for old unreliable planes - I had 3 complete engine failures (including the one fire) and 2 partial failures - in 3 years. Aerobatics experience is good for skills and mental confidence. It all helps when the shit hits the fan.
I saw quite few guys freeze up in airlines, and I basically became single pilot, and you are correct most of them were "cadets" who were inducted with zero hours and then taken through the "system".
I had to do a go around in KL due to a thunderstorm once, my F/O just shut down on the approach, had to configure the thing and do checklists myself, then go around when we hit windshear, enter a hold, do a couple of laps for 10 mins while I tried to get some response out of him and wait for conditions to change. Had him half back (just) by the time we touched down. I wasn't impressed but didn't really think that shouting, punching or abusing him would help much, but I felt like it.
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@taniwharugby said in Planes:
@Snowy my theory was that the wheels were so hot they got off onto the wet grass
Yeah. Not going to help much really but given some of his other choices that migh have been his thought process (assuming that he had one). 300+ deg c versing wet grass...
He obviously didn't get them up to 900 (would have been relatively light for landing) or they all would have gone flat when the plugs blew.
