Lance
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lance:
@WillieTheWaiter Everything with Lance Armstrong was built on a lie. All his "achievements". He put together the most cynical, systematic, cheating system in history of sport
i'm sorry but that statement is utter bullshit. It has it's roots in USADA's statements at the time which was something along those lines.
For clarity - USADA had never investigated another cycling team. I'm not even sure they'd investigated a "team". So for them to say "most complex doping scheme they'd ever seen" (or whatever the exact words were) wasn't exactly a lie - but some bloke dishing out too many panadols to a team and they looked into it would fit the same bill.
Like many things around Armstrongs doping it's just become part of the over dramatised myth.They injected EPO. Just like every other team, and pretty much every other professional sportsman. Nothing complex about it - just a bloke driving a motorbike around france dropping it off.
You really think that's the most systematic cheating system in the history of sport...??! East Germans.. Russians.. they don't hit the top of your list?
And no way you can say "he" set that up.. as I said, all the teams were doing the same thing. Remember, the reason they started doping as a team was cause they couldn't keep up. You make it sound like doping didn't exist before or after he raced. As I said, he's the scapegoat for drugs in cycling. If you're pi$$ed at him you should be equally pissed at 1000's of others.Yup there is a reason none of his stripped titles have been given to the second placers, they were all doing it
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@Machpants the Schlecks were caught more recently weren't they? And I wouldn't be surprised if Sky were up to something, such was their dominance
I thought it was pretty clear Team Sky were up to something dodgy...
Remarkable drugs report shatters Team Sky’s illusion of integrity | Martha Kelner
David Brailsford’s ‘winning clean’ ethos with Sky has been exposed as an empty pledge by an inquiry whose damning findings stretch far and wide
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@Machpants the Schlecks were caught more recently weren't they? And I wouldn't be surprised if Sky were up to something, such was their dominance
I thought it was pretty clear Team Sky were up to something dodgy...
Remarkable drugs report shatters Team Sky’s illusion of integrity | Martha Kelner
David Brailsford’s ‘winning clean’ ethos with Sky has been exposed as an empty pledge by an inquiry whose damning findings stretch far and wide
I missed that, but I'm not surprised
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lance:
@WillieTheWaiter
They injected EPO. Just like every other team, and pretty much every other professional sportsman.Not everyone dopes. Indeed I suspect the vast, vast majority of global, elite sportsmen never had and never, ever would.
Defend Armstrong if you want to but please don't slander the vast majority of clean athletes.
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Yeah well it’s not even on ESPN in the UK it seems. The only way you can watch it here is on ESPN player for a separate monthly subscription.
Update for UK:
It’s on BT Sport 2. Part 1 is being replayed Sunday May 31 @ 2200. Part 2 is on Mon Jun 01 @ 2130.
Geez, you're still paying for sport channel subscriptions?
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Not everyone dopes. Indeed I suspect the vast, vast majority of global, elite sportsmen never had and never, ever would.
Don't take this post as a troll @sparky , because it's definitely not intended that way.
I used to think that way, but at the top level drugs make a fair old difference, and you're dealing with such fine margins. Given that no major drug users have been picked up during their careers; it's all been whistle blowers or confessions rather than testing, I don't think that you can conclude that drug testing works (except in unusual cases like Ostapchuk using old drugs in competition).
To put it another way, if Lance Armstrong, the most tested athlete on the planet never tested positive, how the hell can we expect to pick up anyone?
Therefore, all we can do is 'hope' that most people aren't doing drugs. And 'doping' is a wide ranging statement too; the performance comes from the TEU (Sky, looking at you), Sharapova's 'Meldonium medicine', and so on.
I don't think most people dope. But, for the winners, we don't know who is and isn't doping, and frankly that took away from my enjoyment of a lot of (particularly athletic) sport. I really didn't engage with the last olympics, because you just don't know who's clean and who's not, and most of them are some shade of grey.
Hell, we don't know how many Kiwis are doping, or even All Blacks/Rugby players. Doping wouldn't be a massive contributor in Rugby, but it'd sure help.
There's a great book written by an early professional who headed over to France (googled it: Confessions of a Rugby Mercenary). He talks frankly about doping, eye gouging, and life as a pro. It's a good read, and shows the 'sport as a business' that Rugby was rapidly becoming.
Anyway, back to your statement - most don't, but I'd be surprised if most winners weren't doping somehow.
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So Lance is on ESPN NZ tonight at 11pm. Not sure how a "30 for 30" doco goes for 120mins, but hey.
So I'm a bottle+ deep already and still 2hrs from kick off. Luckily they're showing kobes farewell game right now to get me to the start line.
A warning, please disregard all posts I make for the next 4 hours (more than you usually would)
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lance:
@WillieTheWaiter
They injected EPO. Just like every other team, and pretty much every other professional sportsman.Not everyone dopes. Indeed I suspect the vast, vast majority of global, elite sportsmen never had and never, ever would.
Defend Armstrong if you want to but please don't slander the vast majority of clean athletes.
Call me cynical, but I'd suggest it's the opposite.
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@Bones probably right. Though 1st impressions of Whitianga are good! Sweet little town, great beach. Quality beach hotel, heated pool, tennis court, scooters for the kids, and I can supervise all of the above from my balcony with a wine in hand . What more could you want?
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@nzzp I've read John Daniell's book and knew its author a bit at one point.
Doping in Rugby is not uncommon and has been rife in top French amateur and South African schoolboy Rugby. This oa a few years old but worth reading.
Doping in rugby: an exclusive Rugby World investigation
In the April 2014 edition of Rugby World magazine, we ran the following longread investigation into the state of doping in rugby....
That said, at the elite level, it is much rarer and doesn't make the difference as much as good technique and nutrition.
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That said, at the elite level, it is much rarer and doesn't make the difference as much as good technique and nutrition.
Cheers.
Frankly, the quote is spot on - it's rare, because the improvement isn't massive comapred to technique and skill. Therefore the risk/reward is quite different. Otherwise I reckon it'd be rife (I'm cynical as all hell these days)
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That said, at the elite level, it is much rarer and doesn't make the difference as much as good technique and nutrition.
yeah, there is absolutely no place in elite rugby for being a fraction quicker, or a fraction more powerful, or to be able to sustain effort for a fraction longer.
derp
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@mariner4life said in Lance:
That said, at the elite level, it is much rarer and doesn't make the difference as much as good technique and nutrition.
yeah, there is absolutely no place in elite rugby for being a fraction quicker, or a fraction more powerful, or to be able to sustain effort for a fraction longer.
derp
you're being deliberately obtuse. In Rugby, being slightly faster is useful, but you can have a great career (Conrad Smith) wihtout being a physical specimen. In athletics, though, strength, or speed is the win or loss, it's everything.
That's why the risk/reward for Rugby is different, and I don' think doping is as pervasive
