Black Lives Matter
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@Godder said in Black Lives Matter:
Some form of favouritism is pretty common in the police and justice systems (or their equivalents). That's not to say they are deliberately racist everywhere and always, but the stats tend to favour the majorities. Sometimes it's race, sometimes class/wealth, sometimes religions, sometimes other things.
The USA has different issues in different places, but common themes are that the police are fragmented, poorly trained, have a siege mentality (better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 is a common belief), and do everything because cities often don't have separate regulatory bodies (noise control and parking are often police matters, for example).
It's hard to compare American racism toward Blacks to the UK because slavery was never legal in the UK, and there was no need for things like the 3/5ths compromise, Dred Scott, a civil war over eliminating slavery, no Jim Crow/apartheid, no KKK lynchings. The white British didn't hire bombers to bomb a predominantly black suburb, didn't hang Blacks for rape in public (often consensual until the family of the white woman accused the black man of rape) after 1 hour trials with 10 minute jury verdicts. Integrated schools didn't require the National Guard.
I made the mistake of researching lynching (I was looking up the origins of the word), and while it was originally a version of hanging over a tree branch, a lot of more recent black lynchings (around the late 1800s and early 1900s) were more like burning at the stake.
The history of anti-black racism in the USA is long and unpleasant, and beliefs formed that Blacks were subhuman, backed by churches and religious arguments. Ideally it would all be in the past, but while a lot of good work has been done, it's still a work in progress in some areas.
That's a lot of abhorrent attitudes not seen for more than 30 years.
What does progress look like?
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@Godder said in Black Lives Matter:
Some form of favouritism is pretty common in the police and justice systems (or their equivalents). That's not to say they are deliberately racist everywhere and always, but the stats tend to favour the majorities. Sometimes it's race, sometimes class/wealth, sometimes religions, sometimes other things.
The USA has different issues in different places, but common themes are that the police are fragmented, poorly trained, have a siege mentality (better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 is a common belief), and do everything because cities often don't have separate regulatory bodies (noise control and parking are often police matters, for example).
It's hard to compare American racism toward Blacks to the UK because slavery was never legal in the UK, and there was no need for things like the 3/5ths compromise, Dred Scott, a civil war over eliminating slavery, no Jim Crow/apartheid, no KKK lynchings. The white British didn't hire bombers to bomb a predominantly black suburb, didn't hang Blacks for rape in public (often consensual until the family of the white woman accused the black man of rape) after 1 hour trials with 10 minute jury verdicts. Integrated schools didn't require the National Guard.
I made the mistake of researching lynching (I was looking up the origins of the word), and while it was originally a version of hanging over a tree branch, a lot of more recent black lynchings (around the late 1800s and early 1900s) were more like burning at the stake.
The history of anti-black racism in the USA is long and unpleasant, and beliefs formed that Blacks were subhuman, backed by churches and religious arguments. Ideally it would all be in the past, but while a lot of good work has been done, it's still a work in progress in some areas.
That's a lot of abhorrent attitudes not seen for more than 30 years.
What does progress look like?
That sort of history will take time to overcome, and it's remarkable how far the States have come in that regard. But I can understand why that would still feel very raw.
I also absolutely hate that left wing academics like Robin DiAngelo are undoing so much of that progress, and that the toxic ideas she promotes are spreading around other western countries.
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@MiketheSnow said in Black Lives Matter:
Just read this
Was not aware of this story
Thanks for sharing that, an amazing story.
My MIL has talked of the days in Aus/PNG where she was segregated and under curfew etc. Just crazy that it was so recent. People like Norman who sacrificed so much are the reason things have changed. A true hero in every sense of the word.
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@No-Quarter said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@Godder said in Black Lives Matter:
Some form of favouritism is pretty common in the police and justice systems (or their equivalents). That's not to say they are deliberately racist everywhere and always, but the stats tend to favour the majorities. Sometimes it's race, sometimes class/wealth, sometimes religions, sometimes other things.
The USA has different issues in different places, but common themes are that the police are fragmented, poorly trained, have a siege mentality (better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 is a common belief), and do everything because cities often don't have separate regulatory bodies (noise control and parking are often police matters, for example).
It's hard to compare American racism toward Blacks to the UK because slavery was never legal in the UK, and there was no need for things like the 3/5ths compromise, Dred Scott, a civil war over eliminating slavery, no Jim Crow/apartheid, no KKK lynchings. The white British didn't hire bombers to bomb a predominantly black suburb, didn't hang Blacks for rape in public (often consensual until the family of the white woman accused the black man of rape) after 1 hour trials with 10 minute jury verdicts. Integrated schools didn't require the National Guard.
I made the mistake of researching lynching (I was looking up the origins of the word), and while it was originally a version of hanging over a tree branch, a lot of more recent black lynchings (around the late 1800s and early 1900s) were more like burning at the stake.
The history of anti-black racism in the USA is long and unpleasant, and beliefs formed that Blacks were subhuman, backed by churches and religious arguments. Ideally it would all be in the past, but while a lot of good work has been done, it's still a work in progress in some areas.
That's a lot of abhorrent attitudes not seen for more than 30 years.
What does progress look like?
That sort of history will take time to overcome, and it's remarkable how far the States have come in that regard. But I can understand why that would still feel very raw.
I also absolutely hate that left wing academics like Robin DiAngelo are undoing so much of that progress, and that the toxic ideas she promotes are spreading around other western countries.
That'd explain the spate of Jewish riots over the years I guess.
Sorry for being snide but the old " they've suffered historically " seems a shallow (yet blindly subscribed to) excuse for homicide rates and burning the USA, presumably because everywhere they look is a reminder of past oppression.
Same as trans, gay and feminism. " You don't try to understand our plight" and when you try; "you'll never know what it's like to live our plight"
Why do so many black people reject the oppressive history excuse?
Why do we have to believe virtuous non black lecturers spouting their generalisations and assumptions with the superior certainty of benevolent plantation owners, describing their stock? ( not you mate)
Is it because it creates a problem that can never be solved, and that's good for business?
We all want to see the black community thrive but there's difference of opinion about the hierarchy of the many causes of the current situation.
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@Rembrandt said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@Rembrandt "peaceful assembly"๐ค
what a complete fluffybunny
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@Siam A really simple one that has gained traction recently is acknowledging that the root cause of the Civil War was the South wanting to retain slavery and attempting to secede to do so. This isn't news as such (it's the historical truth), but the South really struggles to actually acknowledge it (plenty of anecdotes online about school curriculums and textbooks not being accurate about the motivations behind the Confederacy), and meanwhile, the Confederacy is lionised in a lot of the South. Incidentally, there are still Civil War pensions being paid to children of veterans and children and grandchildren of slaves alive, so it's not as far removed from the present as it seems.
Maybe the Dukes of Hazzard doesn't need to be banned, but perhaps the various confederate flags and statues can be removed from public view as they are symbols of a totally racist and awful ideology. The KKK disbanding (if still racist) or renaming (if not racist - may vary by chapter) couldn't hurt.
End the War on Drugs as one of Nixon's aides wrote a book which included an explanation of the War on Drugs being invented specifically to target Blacks and Hispanics. Legalising cannabis would help a lot there. This doesn't mean legalise everything, but police it differently and call it something else.
Fix policing - that doesn't mean not having them, but it might involve disestablishment in some really bad cases and building something new in its place (Camden is often used as an example). A lot of (re)training might be enough in other areas. Consider whether the police need to handle everything, or whether creating other regulatory agencies might be better for some things. Remove the bad apples as they will spoil the barrel otherwise. Fund mental health services more as often police shootings involve mentally ill people.
The first time I became aware of the concept of institutional racism was the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, when Will got arrested for driving while Black in one episode. Try not to do that.
Everyone has biases - it's part of the human condition. It will never be perfect, but it could be better.
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@Rembrandt said in Black Lives Matter:
UN throwing a bit of support behind arsonists and looters
But Chinese terrorism is OK!
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Not read through the whole thread but, for what it is worth, here is my two cents.
I am generally supportive of Black Lives Matter. It is already the largest global civil rights movement in history. Life chances for Black people have improved from the 1950s and 1960s in the US and UK but far too slowly. In recent years, as racists have organised online in groups and radicalised each other, progressed has in some ways been reversed. Almost every Black person I know has a story of a time when they suffered horrendous racism. Some friends have several such stories. We need more social mobility. We have let what we know to be abhorrent go on for far too long. Racism is wrong.
The best thing any of us can do is listen, be empathetic, then where appropriate make changes so that in the future more people will have a chance to shine and be judged by the content of their character rather than the colour of their skin.
No justice, no peace.
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@Godder biases eh? You're incapable of knowing what it's like to be a black person so we're going to destroy your house and business and you have to just put up with it until you learn. Oh, and we'll decide when you've learnt.
Reform the police when more non blacks are brutalised and killed at 3 times the rate of blacks.
Always the answers are for non blacks to fix society's ills. Just demands and violence
Oh well, the horse has bolted and now we'll see if Americans accept destroying their cities lying down.
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@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@Godder biases eh? You're incapable of knowing what it's like to be a black person so we're going to destroy your house and business and you have to just put up with it until you learn. Oh, and we'll decide when you've learnt.
Reform the police when more non blacks are brutalised and killed at 3 times the rate of blacks.
Always the answers are for non blacks to fix society's ills. Just demands and violence
Oh well, the horse has bolted and now we'll see if Americans accept destroying their cities lying down.
This attitude right here is why we get riots. If people won't accept that it's a problem when presented politely, then demonstrations and protests are next, and sometimes they don't remain peaceful. Sometimes protesters do stupid things, sometimes racist whites do stupid things and blame the Blacks, sometimes the police do the same, sometimes the police show pictures of candles and claim that they were explosives or molotov cocktails.
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@Godder said in Black Lives Matter:
@Siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@Godder biases eh? You're incapable of knowing what it's like to be a black person so we're going to destroy your house and business and you have to just put up with it until you learn. Oh, and we'll decide when you've learnt.
Reform the police when more non blacks are brutalised and killed at 3 times the rate of blacks.
Always the answers are for non blacks to fix society's ills. Just demands and violence
Oh well, the horse has bolted and now we'll see if Americans accept destroying their cities lying down.
This attitude right here is why we get riots. If people won't accept that it's a problem when presented politely, then demonstrations and protests are next, and sometimes they don't remain peaceful. Sometimes protesters do stupid things, sometimes racist whites do stupid things and blame the Blacks, sometimes the police do the same, sometimes the police show pictures of candles and claim that they were explosives or molotov cocktails.
I think you misspelled factually, or robustly, or accurately, or in detail or precisely or, or scientifically,
or exhaustively, or even equally.๐Good luck with the revolution and I look forward to all the great things that will come out of it๐
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Since by FAR the majority of murders of blacks are by other blacks, Shouldn't the focus of Black Lives Matter be on this aspect?
I mean, that is, if they are serious about Black Lives Mattering.What is the name of the organization dedicated to improving black lives which focuses on internal self analysis? Can anyone tell me?
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@No-Quarter I don't know why you need to mix the two issues. Like the Greens, why do you have to be marxists as well?