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@Bovidae said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I heard Darryn Webb say that the family were likely to have been granted an exemption to leave isolation to view the body of the deceased family member before being escorted back to the hotel.
They couldn't wait 1 h for a decision?
Farken stupid. Sympathy draining
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Sad story, but seriously, you dont think plenty of people during lockdown faced a flat no regardless of any compassionate circumstances.
My mates mother went in to hospital the other night (at the time they thought it was far worse than what it's turned out to be) so he basically called every govt agency in NZ and Oz to figure out if he could get back to Shield Snorters and then back into Oz. It was made pretty clear to him he was highly unlikely to get a compassionate exemption. The Oz govt also said he would be down the bottom of the list to get back into Oz as they prioritise citizens, then PR's over NZers on SCVs.
So, as you say a sad story, but they really should have made their enquiries before getting on a plane to NZ.
Did the NZ Gov also say he was unlikely to get an exemption at that end to see his mum? Or was all the resistance from the Oz end?
My wife arrives to Oz tmrw and applied for self iso a few weeks ago (she has access to her parents unused apartment), but hasn't heard a thing, think she just gets told at the airport on arrival, presumably a negative.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Sad story, but seriously, you dont think plenty of people during lockdown faced a flat no regardless of any compassionate circumstances.
My mates mother went in to hospital the other night (at the time they thought it was far worse than what it's turned out to be) so he basically called every govt agency in NZ and Oz to figure out if he could get back to Shield Snorters and then back into Oz. It was made pretty clear to him he was highly unlikely to get a compassionate exemption. The Oz govt also said he would be down the bottom of the list to get back into Oz as they prioritise citizens, then PR's over NZers on SCVs.
So, as you say a sad story, but they really should have made their enquiries before getting on a plane to NZ.
Did the NZ Gov also say he was unlikely to get an exemption at that end to see his mum? Or was all the resistance from the Oz end?
My wife arrives to Oz tmrw and applied for self iso a few weeks ago (she has access to her parents unused apartment), but hasn't heard a thing, think she just gets told at the airport on arrival, presumably a negative.
Sorry, should have been more clear in my OP, unlikely to get an exemption to see his Mum, and no guarantee he'd be given one of the limited spots to get back into Oz as he's not Australian.
I didn't know there was an option to self isolate ... I guess that is an option because she's coming from NZ, but wouldn't be if she was arriving from the UK?
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@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Sad story, but seriously, you dont think plenty of people during lockdown faced a flat no regardless of any compassionate circumstances.
My mates mother went in to hospital the other night (at the time they thought it was far worse than what it's turned out to be) so he basically called every govt agency in NZ and Oz to figure out if he could get back to Shield Snorters and then back into Oz. It was made pretty clear to him he was highly unlikely to get a compassionate exemption. The Oz govt also said he would be down the bottom of the list to get back into Oz as they prioritise citizens, then PR's over NZers on SCVs.
So, as you say a sad story, but they really should have made their enquiries before getting on a plane to NZ.
Did the NZ Gov also say he was unlikely to get an exemption at that end to see his mum? Or was all the resistance from the Oz end?
My wife arrives to Oz tmrw and applied for self iso a few weeks ago (she has access to her parents unused apartment), but hasn't heard a thing, think she just gets told at the airport on arrival, presumably a negative.
Sorry, should have been more clear in my OP, unlikely to get an exemption to see his Mum, and no guarantee he'd be given one of the limited spots to get back into Oz as he's not Australian.
I didn't know there was an option to self isolate ... I guess that is an option because she's coming from NZ, but wouldn't be if she was arriving from the UK?
Not sure that's the criteria for self so. I think it's more who you know, see Nicole Kidman and Danni Minogue. Otherwise I think it's no chance generally.
I was curious on the process for NZ granting exemptions, as I might be asking for one in a couple of months, but it sounds like a long shot.
Might have to do a runner from the hotel... 😉
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo aren't you in NZ still?
Yep, but probably heading home 1 Sep. Wife leaves today so this is Day 1 of at least 6 weeks of solo parenting!!! 😱
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo aren't you in NZ still?
Yep, but probably heading home 1 Sep. Wife leaves today so this is Day 1 of at least 6 weeks of solo parenting!!! 😱
Hope the beer and wine stocks are good mate
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo aren't you in NZ still?
Yep, but probably heading home 1 Sep. Wife leaves today so this is Day 1 of at least 6 weeks of solo parenting!!! 😱
Hope the beer and wine stocks are good mate
Yep. Drunk kids are amusing and as an added bonus they sleep well, too.
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jam your premium article!
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also, i would love for a government to start talking about some sort of plan for how to live with this thing. There is no end game
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
also, i would love for a government to start talking about some sort of plan for how to live with this thing. There is no end game
I'm more optimistic about a vaccine.
Even if we don't get one, having retrovirals or something to reduce the effect is almost as good.
It sounds more and more like getting infected twice is really not a big thing ... so hopefully things are going to be good in a year or so!
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@Tim yeah not been much made of that, but initial reports yesterday said the info they were getting from SK wasnt great either.
What are the chances of a positive test that soon if they picked it up on-route (assume Singapore or on the flight?)
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@taniwharugby Depends on how sensitive and accurate the tests are (given the days since infection for this person). Could also be a false positive. One summary for RT-PCR tests:
Test performance by illness duration – The likelihood of detectable SARS-CoV-2 RNA may also vary by the duration of illness [43,44]. In an analysis of seven studies (including two unpublished reports) that evaluated RT-PCR performance by time since symptom onset or exposure, the estimated rates of false-negative results were 100 percent on the day of exposure, 38 percent on day 5 (estimated as the first day of symptoms), 20 percent at day 8, and 66 percent at day 21 [43]. Heterogeneity across studies and assumptions made in the analysis (eg, about incubation period and time of exposure) reduce confidence in these results. One of the studies included in the analysis used a combination of RT-PCR and an IgM serologic test to make the diagnosis of COVID-19 and suggested that RT-PCR negative rates were <10 percent on days 1 to 3 of illness, >20 percent at day 6, and >50 percent after day 14; however, these results should also be interpreted with caution, since the serologic test used was not validated for detection of acute infection and IgM tests are frequently falsely positive [44]. Other studies have also suggested that viral RNA levels are high prior to the development of symptoms (ie, in pre-symptomatic patients) [45]. (See "Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19): Epidemiology, virology, and prevention", section on 'Viral shedding and period of infectiousness'.)
Data on test performance and viral RNA levels in asymptomatic patients are limited [45]. It is unknown how soon viral RNA can be detectable following exposure and infection.
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@Tim This sort of analysis will depend on the quality of the testing. Of course, I would trust some countries methods more than others. For UW and Stanford medical centres (I assume them to be of high quality), only 3.5% of those initially testing negative, who were retested within 7 days, then tested positive. Only symptomatic patients were retested.
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Nor a bad FB rant against user pays for hotel quarantine:
I waited so long - truly, I did - before I finally bit and got into an online discussion. Seeing as I've gone to all the trouble to fall to the same level as an online troll, (and spend 20 minutes writing in a furious rant), I may as well share what I wrote, in case anyone wants to use any of these points to inform the uninformed.
Hi X, I wondered how long it would be before these arguments popped up!
Let me address them one by one (and add a few more just so you are fully informed).- Many people have not been away for more than 2 years. I've been away for 11 months - I am still a Kiwi. If I choose to be away (or am forced to remain away) for more than 2 years, I am still a Kiwi. 10 years on - still a Kiwi.
- Many people who live overseas pay NZ tax. Literally today, I paid a $2400 NZD tax bill. I have paid tax for 12 years of work, and will pay tax for a further ~40 years (hopefully not!) of work when I return.
- Lots of people in NZ do not pay tax, never will, never have. That does not make them any less 'Kiwi'. Tax dollars go towards lots of services that benefit the country as a whole, even if specific individuals never use them. I have not been to a doctor in NZ for the past 5+ years. I have never driven on the road to Gisborne. I have never committed a crime and ended up in a state-funded prison. Yet I would not say that we should abolish any tax payer dollars that go towards these services, because that is what the tax system is set up to do.
- Most people abroad do not earn more overseas than they do in NZ - that is demonstrably false. The average wage for those under 30 living in London is less than what they might earn in NZ.
- How much you earn or do not earn has absolutely no bearing on statehood, or the right to return to your home. How much you earn has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you can or should benefit from using a tax-funded service (like a road or the streetlights outside your house). Should we exclude those with less means from driving on the same roads as us? From going to the same hospitals?
- 6 millions people made the sacrifice, not 5 million. Do you think it is not scary being in a country where coronavirus is not under control? Do you think that we are being selfish by seeking refuge in our HOME country which, by geographical chance, is better able to manage a pandemic? Am I selfish in wanting to return home to see my family, because people I literally know and have worked with have died from a pandemic that has killed millions of people across the globe? Really?
- The Government advised all NZ'ers to REMAIN ABROAD - official governement policy - when coronavireus unfolded. They are still restricting flights home. It is on the Government that there are still so many Kiwis overseas, as they advised us to remain. Even if I wanted to come home, it would cost me ~$7000 in airfares one-way (no joke). How does a $3000 bill on top of that sound?
- I personally do not like the idea of paying for Joe Bloggs' third bypass surgery because he never went for a walk in the park in his whole life. But I do, and I accept that, because the tax system should protect people and not discriminate, and I empathise with my fellow Kiwi. We all pay for services we never use - if you have an alternative system than taxation, I'd love to hear it.
- By your logic, if you haven't 'contributed' to our economy for the past two years, you should not be allowed in the country. Tell me, how has a prisoner contributed to the country in the past 2 years? Should we deport them? To which country? None, because no country woudl take them, because they are New Zealanders, regardless of their circumstances, and they have a right to live in their home country without having to prove a monetary worth. C'mon mate, we are better humans than that, surely?
- You, (and I), do not personally know anyones circumstances as to why they left NZ, and why they are coming home. What makes you, or any of us, the ultimate decider of who is worthy to seek safety and support from their loved ones?
- I work for a university which is testing a coronavirus vaccine in live patients. I get paid (less than I did in NZ by the way) to help recruit the next generation of doctors and clinical researchers that are developing the vaccines that might save yours, or your families, or at the least, millions of people from around the world's lives. Should you be charged $3000 for a dose of this vaccine? Or should the government pay for it, because it is in the public's best interest to keep our country safe and healthy?
- If this is the case, then how does keeping the 'team of five million' safe and healthy at a minute cost to the overall Covid budget (which has been set aside because there is currently nothing else to spend it on) somehow not qualify as a public health good tha EVERYONE (you and your family included) benefits from?
- Hypothetical situation: No NZ'ers are allowed to return home (or they can't afford to any longer). Hotel capacity falls, hotels close. Jobs are lost. Businesses go under. The government bails them out (at a cost greater than the $3k per returning Kiwi). OR, the government doesn't, hundreds lose jobs, people go onto the unemployment benefit (at a cost greater than the $3k per returning Kiwi). Economically, this argument is dead on arrival - returning NZ'ers spend money, earn an income, pay tax, and stimulate the economy. Once you subtract the administrative costs of collecting a (selective) tax, you are left with pennies, for what - some sort of xenophobic principle that you feel the need to uphold, before you go and vote for Winston Peters?
- Any charge requires a law change (see today's news). How much does it cost the NZ government to pay 120 sitting MP's, plus all the accompanying staffers, to sit and pass laws in NZ Parliament, run select committee meetings, hold public hearings, etc., etc., in order to pass a law to collect peanuts in terms of revenue? A lot more than $3k, that's for sure. Time better spent maybe looking at more pressing issues? Public health? Education? Environmental issues? Small business support? Legislation to provide relief for self-employed? I can think of one hundred reasons.
Look mate, I hear you - it sucks that you feel like you have to pay your hard earned tax dollars towards this. But in the end we all benefit. And you personally do not know the circumstances under which many Kiwwi's are forced to come home. Which, by the way, they have a moral, legal, and absolutely sound right to do. If a single person, SINGLE PERSON, cannot come home due to this charge, it is morally bankrupt and a huge dissapointment for New Zealand to be reduced to treating its citizens like outsiders.
Let me know if you want another 14x justifications - happy to provide. There is literally no end to the short-sightednes of this argument.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The Government advised all NZ'ers to REMAIN ABROAD - official governement policy - when coronavireus unfolded
er, when was that made official 'governement' policy?
Pretty sure they told KIwis to come home back in March?
Coronavirus - New Zealand