Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Snowy we had ours from the first round still.
I honestly just thought you could do it online and print them off.
Yes you can
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@No-Quarter and the PR war starts. âIt couldâve come from Melbourne, because we all know how much of a basket case that wasâ when there isnât a shred of evidence...
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@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo do they not have the Covid poster with the QR code by the entrance?
I got mine today. It took three days, so load s of places won't have them yet.
Oh boy this aged beautifully considering the posts immediately following it đ
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@No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
On the flip side to govt errors, I'm not listening to one whinge about lockdown levels unless those making it can confirm that they are also being sensible.
I can't believe the number of people that are walking past requests to sanitise in shops, not using the QR codes, standing in close groups chatting, grouping in aisles of shops to talk, stopping in doorways etc etc.
They will all moan and blame others for failures but can't do the basics themselves FFS.Fuck we have a bad blame culture in this country.
Sorry Crucial, but get the fuck out of here with that shit. We complied with the most draconian lockdown in the world and completely gave up our rights for ~6 weeks while businesses died and peoples mental health deteriorated. I heard Bloomfield speak recently and he said he was surprised by how compliant the population was (in a good way).
We then didn't only flatten the curve, we smashed the fucking thing. We then heard our government heaping praise on themselves saying we were the envy of the world.
While this was happening there was countless "compassionate" exemptions being granted, including two women WITH Covid that somehow managed to drive the length of the North Island without stopping. Which is of course completely ridiculous, but apparently the government thought we were stupid enough to believe that. We now find out that most staff at the border aren't even being tested? WTF?
People are pissed because it's been obvious for a while that it's been nothing but blind luck stopping another outbreak. I said earlier in the thread that it was inevitable we would get another outbreak, not because the virus simply cannot be contained, but because there was no way we were going to contain it with the incompetence of this current government who were too busy reading their own press to actually plug the many holes at our border.
"Go hard and go early" is the mantra of the government, all while our border leaks like a sieve. It beggars belief.
Good rant but I fail to see what that has to do with people bitching about govt failures while happily doing shit that would also add to any issue. Hypocrisy.
We still donât know if this resurgence is from incompetence at the border or from other reasons. A simple incorrect test result could be a reason and why things are not foolproof.
Thereâs lots not being done as we may like but as explained in this thread by someone in the system these things are never as simple as we may like to think.
It was always inevitable that we would get more cases one way or another.
Iâm happy to pile on to an avoidable incompetence but the blaming without knowledge achieves nothing.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Bones said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
due to Covid, we are unable to sell lottery tickets
I think it actually said David. Bloody Dave. Went on another bender and didn't turn up for work.
Now that I can support. Poor bastard, he's probably in a world of pain.
We all know what happens after David.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We still donât know if this resurgence is from incompetence at the border or from other reasons. A simple incorrect test result could be a reason and why things are not foolproof.
If a simple incorrect test result can have this big of an impact on the country, wouldn't it make sense to have another test or two? Seems like incompetence to me for someone to make this sort of oversight...
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@Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I got takeaway gourmet burgers in Warkworth last night. Bloody delicious. I don't want those places to shutdown again.
The covid boundary for AKL should also have been the Puhoi tunnels. Just because we are "super " city, it wasn't in Wellsford, Warkworth, Te Hana. All small towns that need the financial support.
Head to Matakana whenever I get back to NZ. Which burger joint?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan Treatment(s) that render it less dangerous. Lot's of them being developed now. This has always been what I've been holding out for. Vaccine has always seemed a bit of a pipe dream. Nice to have but don't hold your breath or rely on it.
This is it. If its potential to kill or make you really sick can be reduced via a new or repurposed medication (shut up about hydroquinone, you know who you are) then life will return close to normal regardless of whether we have a vaccine or not. Think of taking panadol or brufen when you get the flu
In fact there is a very good argument that that is where Western Europe is right now. Not sure what propoaganda is being fed there about UK, but unless a person has a serious pre-existing health problem Covid is less dangerous to them than the flu.
But seems politicians are scared of coming out and saying this as they are afraid they'll be pilloried for being heartless.
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@Anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We still donât know if this resurgence is from incompetence at the border or from other reasons. A simple incorrect test result could be a reason and why things are not foolproof.
If a simple incorrect test result can have this big of an impact on the country, wouldn't it make sense to have another test or two? Seems like incompetence to me for someone to make this sort of oversight...
Itâs called risk mitigation. Testing is not 100% perfect. The combination of time and testing for those in isolation has an extremely good chance of picking up the infected. But if someone was asymptomatic and there was a test error on their sample they could easily move out to infect. Nothing is perfect.
What are you suggesting? If one more test then why not two more, or three more?
For all the outcry about iso workers and tests, whereâs the cases? Maybe because precautions are being used that reduce risk?As I keep saying I will be happy to join the pile on if an avoidable incompetency is the cause of this cluster. I m just not joining in based on fear and assumed blame.
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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356833
The source of this recent covid19 strain is a mystery
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@canefan So they ordered something via Wish or Alibaba and a factory worker had coughed in the package...
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan So they ordered something via Wish or Alibaba and a factory worker had coughed in the package...
Must have been something stored at that cool storage facility. Then the workers licked the wrong package
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Anonymous said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We still donât know if this resurgence is from incompetence at the border or from other reasons. A simple incorrect test result could be a reason and why things are not foolproof.
If a simple incorrect test result can have this big of an impact on the country, wouldn't it make sense to have another test or two? Seems like incompetence to me for someone to make this sort of oversight...
Itâs called risk mitigation. Testing is not 100% perfect. The combination of time and testing for those in isolation has an extremely good chance of picking up the infected. But if someone was asymptomatic and there was a test error on their sample they could easily move out to infect. Nothing is perfect.
What are you suggesting? If one more test then why not two more, or three more?
For all the outcry about iso workers and tests, whereâs the cases? Maybe because precautions are being used that reduce risk?As I keep saying I will be happy to join the pile on if an avoidable incompetency is the cause of this cluster. I m just not joining in based on fear and assumed blame.
If it was inevitable or even reasonably likely that we'd get cases in the community again, and this was obvious before it happened, then it was known that the risks weren't being well mitigated.
We were able to eliminate the virus within NZ, so it's definitely possible to prevent it from getting back into community. It's all about how much risk is acceptable.
If you believe that there's a realistic chance that it happened because someone asymptomatic got an incorrect result, then you should be wanting people in quarantine/managed isolation to be tested more or have to stay longer.
But to me, the method of how it happened doesn't really absolve the government of responsibility if it was almost guaranteed to happen with the levels of risk being deemed acceptable. It's just splitting hairs. Regardless of whether it's from an isolation worker, an incorrect test result, or some other realistic means, it's gone through the government's systems that should be in place to prevent it from happening.
So the way I see it, it's either incompetence or they see us having lockdowns every couple of months as acceptable. If it's the later, then that also raises a lot of questions about their competence.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Nepia @Mokey theres usually a number of factors at play when there is public sector recruitment. Thereâs efficiency dividends, recruitment and senior executive caps and annual government dept budgets. Add to that the ongoing cost of employing someone full-time and the difficulty (employment law) in getting rid of a permanent are two major factors in going the contractor/consultant path.
@Godder i think what Covid-19 has exposed is the rigidity of âGovernmentâ and bureaucracy. Iâm not talking so much about people, but the inflexible âsystemsâ which laden society that are easily adapted or changed. I think and hope that this will bring about changes that will endure beyond Covid and communityâs engagement with âGovernmentâ will be enhanced.
On the first point, I'd add that the cap on total public servant numbers introduced by National was another factor in various government departments using more and more contractors since they couldn't hire more staff (Labour removed the cap and told the Public Service to reduce contractor numbers instead - it's happening but very slowly in some places). This was particularly ludicrous in agencies like DOC or MBIE/Immigration NZ where increases in tourist numbers over time led to more total fees and levies being received to pay for more staff to do the increased work, but the additional staff were counted in the overall cap, so more contractors were required elsewhere.
Obviously National were wise to that, but the Public Service got better over time at categorising contractors as professional services and other legitimate reasons to have contractors, hiding the real extent of it (makes sense to have external lawyers for serious stuff and accountants/auditors, but not so much having a temp firm provide call centre workers as temps when the jobs clearly exist all year round and staffing can be managed through attrition...). Labour has required better reporting to try to minimise that (I'm sure National would have done the same had they remained in office since it first became national news in 2017), but it's a process.
On the second point, so much agreement. In my experience, what often happens is someone stuffs up, often royally, it hits the media who screech to the heavens about accountability and processes and procedures to avoid this ever happening again, and so the Systems and Standard Operating Procedures and Review Processes are set into motion to avoid it ever happening again, and in so doing, also avoid meaningful work happening again. Hours of fruitful work, as Sir Humphrey might say...
Another way this happens is that someone doesn't like a decision or action of the Public Service, so a complaint is laid with the Ombudsman, or the Office of the Auditor-General, or the Human Rights Commission, or the Privacy Commissioner, or someone opts for a Judicial Review of a decision in the High Court (basically all Public Service decisions are reviewable, even many which aren't able to be appealed). An outcome/finding is rendered eventually which tells the department that they were Doing It Wrong, recommends Additional Procedures and Processes, and verily the cycle continues.
Then there's the constant panic of Ministers about media attention (They Needs It as it is Their Precious, but it also corrupts the bejesus out of most of them about as much as Their Precious would) on something trivial or trifling, and the amount of time Something Must Be Done, and This Is Something, even if it later turns out in Court that This Was Wrong.
Another observation/rant is that departments get scrutinised on expenditure so much that it becomes acceptable to spend (nearly) unlimited funds on Policies and Procedures to clearly state what is acceptable and Approvals and Audit Processes to ensure taxpayer money isn't wasted or misspent - which is fine, but Lord knows how many hundreds or thousands of Public Servants are involved in that, and how much is spent to save Not Much, because most Public Servants have a natural caution about spending Taxpayers' Money. I recall a lot of public complaining about hair straighteners at MBIE a few years ago, but Lord knows how much MBIE have spent on ensuring that they don't do that again, and providing assurance to the public and ministers that they haven't done it again.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
- Another 13 cases, 1 in managed isolation, 12 linked to current cases
- 23682 tests overnight
- 3 people currently in hospital
It is promising that there is no one in the ICU for covid19. Or I assume if there was it would have been reported
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
- Another 13 cases, 1 in managed isolation, 12 linked to current cases
- 23682 tests overnight
- 3 people currently in hospital
It is promising that there is no one in the ICU for covid19. Or I assume if there was it would have been reported
Was noted that all 3 are in wards, not ICU - 2 in Auckland Hospital, 1 in Middlemore.
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Health Minister says QR codes now should work with all tracer apps, but still strong preference for people to use the official app. Businesses must provide QR code and manual register for people without phones or the app(s), but people aren't required to fill in details on the register if they have scanned the QR code, although no doubt businesses will continue to require both.
Masks can be made compulsory but currently aren't because of supply issues and a preference to put effort and resources into testing and other areas rather than enforcement of mask-wearing.
As at 4pm yesterday, 50,468 crossed into/out of Auckland, 676 turned back.