Coronavirus - New Zealand
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Arse. There goes the already small prospect of a Trans Ta$man bubble in the near future.
So the latest case 'got a Covid test, then went to the gym'. Let's hope we don't have a few people from Manukau/Papatoetoe/Botany Downs at the Parker fight tonight after a recent Covid test...
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Given how the last 5 or so weeks have been in NZ, are people that fucking stupid or just don't give a shit?
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@mokey said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Three days was never going to be long enough to get a handle on things, especially with a high school breakout. And now it's far worse with an infectious person having gone to supermarket, gym, MIT etc.
The trouble with the self isolate thing is it's high trust, and a lot of people are fucking idiots.
It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
If Auckland had to stay in Level 3 early last week, people - particularly businesses - would have complained about having to stay in Level 3 without the evidence backing up the need for doing so. There was no evidence (when they went down to level 2) that there was wider spread in the community further than those that could be directly linked to Paptoetoe HS. They could all be traced back to cases A, B and C, so had one source (whatever that source was, they haven't been able to establish that).
The problem that is arising now is that this person is a family member of one of the earlier cases, but tested negative three times, so may have been infected somewhere else. So even if it's the same strain and can be genomically traced back to the same source again, they don't know yet where he was infected and whether other people may possibly have been infected that way, too. On top of that, he has breached all the rules and went out and about while infectious (just like the teenager earlier in the week). So basically, now - with the knowledge they have at the moment - they have to go back to level 3.
The MoH can't do anything else but to follwo the science and act on information that is available. Information about the type of strain, most likely source (genome sequencing), most likely link to other infectious cases (epidemiological link) etc. , but there will always be people complaining, no matter what they do or what they don't.
IMO, the biggest problem is people not following the rules, people not getting tested when they should and people not telling the truth. There's a whole lot of information provided to the affected community, things have been explained to them, all sorts of financial schemes are available in case they have to miss work, but in the end all you can do is hope they get the message and listen. You can't lock people up.
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The economic impacts of lockdowns on businesses is well known, and those businesses hit hardest were rightly saying they would need further government assistance to survive another level 3+ lockdown. It's not "complaining", it's the right thing to do because a whole bunch of businesses going bust is a bad outcome for NZ.
Despite this the government has maintained that their approach of "go hard and go early" to rid the community of Covid (as opposed to the original flatten the curve) is the right one. Now you can argue the merits of that, but if that's the message they put out then returning to level one when we 1) don't know the source and 2) haven't allowed enough time to determine how widespread the outbreak is then that goes against everything they've been saying. There's no logic to what they are doing at the moment and people are rightly pissed off at them for going up, down and then up again in a short space of time.
TBH I think a lot of people are sick of the mixed messages from the government and just want life to go on. Ridding ourselves of the virus altogether doesn't seem like a particularly realistic strategy, and constantly locking down isn't sustainable. I tend to direct my ire at the government and little of it towards my fellow citizens who have had enough.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Given how the last 5 or so weeks have been in NZ, are people that fucking stupid or just don't give a shit?
Complacency was always going to be our downfall
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Given how the last 5 or so weeks have been in NZ, are people that fucking stupid or just don't give a shit?
Complacency was always going to be our downfall
our Gross Domestic Smugness was off the charts.
Personally, I'm not critiquing us dropping back to L2 and then L1. What I find frustrating is the inconsistency in approach - one case of unknown origin this time means a week of L3, and cancelling (for instance) round the bays. Last time it was 3 days, and Sunday events just rolled on.
The risk tolerance is just kinda all over the place.
Looking forward, we should be pushing hard for changing to compulsory scnaning, RFID tagging into stores, 'no scan no service' kind of culture.
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If someone is asymptomatic, has tested negative multiple times, and sees the government has put us into level 1 indicating they are not concerned about the latest outbreak, can you blame them for getting back to work? It's not like people are itching to go work long hard shifts at kfry or kmart, they just need the money.
Easier for rich kids in Parnell to "self-isolate" than kids in South Auckland, many who are trying to support their families.
Again, ire has to go to the government for their handling of this. It was idiotic to think we could go back to level 1 but have people still act like we were at 3.
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@no-quarter some good points made there, however this latest person went for their test then went to the gym and a bunch of other stops (despite being told to isolate until the test was complete) from what I heard. Frustrating
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apparently this case has now been genomically linked to the 2nd family.
Problem is, people are just not making smart decisions, people are not doing the right thing, as above, smug complacency is our undoing!
I walked into New World on Friday, 5 others went in just before or after me, only 1 other person scanned, he was elderly and I saw an elderly lady filling in the sign in form (assume she doesnt have a smart phone) Despite all this, people still arent taking it seriously
A month ago I got a grab one deal to take the kids to Rainbows End, which you need to book the day you are going, and I was going to go online yesterday and book for next weekend, but forgot...push it out again.
A mate posted a pic of the Brynderwyns last night, lines of traffic heading north at midnight.
Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield advised Case M developed symptoms on Tuesday, before being tested on Friday, meaning they had been infectious since last weekend.
During that time they had gone to a number of “high-risk”, “well populated” places, including a supermarket, gym and Manukau Institute of Technology.
“People who should have been in isolation weren’t.”
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
apparently this case has now been genomically linked to the 2nd family.
Problem is, people are just not making smart decisions, people are not doing the right thing, as above, smug complacency is our undoing!
I walked into New World on Friday, 5 others went in just before or after me, only 1 other person scanned, he was elderly and I saw an elderly lady filling in the sign in form (assume she doesnt have a smart phone) Despite all this, people still arent taking it seriously
A month ago I got a grab one deal to take the kids to Rainbows End, which you need to book the day you are going, and I was going to go online yesterday and book for next weekend, but forgot...push it out again.
A mate posted a pic of the Brynderwyns last night, lines of traffic heading north at midnight.
Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield advised Case M developed symptoms on Tuesday, before being tested on Friday, meaning they had been infectious since last weekend.
During that time they had gone to a number of “high-risk”, “well populated” places, including a supermarket, gym and Manukau Institute of Technology.
“People who should have been in isolation weren’t.”
The flip side of "be kind" is that the government does not impress on the everyday person how close we are to calamity at any time. As nzzp said(?) there needs to be a strong push in terms of mask wearing, self isolating and testing if you are symptomatic, scan or no entry, and people just generally following instructions. This guy will not begin to understand the trail of destruction his decisions will create. Mrs CF was out for dinner with friends last night, the looks on the faces of the staff at the restaurant told you they were broken by this. The chef/owner came up to their table, he simply did not know what to do
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter some good points made there, however this latest person went for their test then went to the gym and a bunch of other stops (despite being told to isolate until the test was complete) from what I heard. Frustrating
That specific example is a little annoying but I'm not ready to hang a kid out to dry when the real failing is that of the government.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter some good points made there, however this latest person went for their test then went to the gym and a bunch of other stops (despite being told to isolate until the test was complete) from what I heard. Frustrating
That specific example is a little annoying but I'm not ready to hang a kid out to dry when the real failing is that of the government.
having symptoms, getting tested and then going to the gym is not cool at all in a Covid risk time. If you're 21, you should know better; blaming the government isn't great - they are in no way the main problem here
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter some good points made there, however this latest person went for their test then went to the gym and a bunch of other stops (despite being told to isolate until the test was complete) from what I heard. Frustrating
That specific example is a little annoying but I'm not ready to hang a kid out to dry when the real failing is that of the government.
As I said above, they are not taking the lead in terms of trying to make people do what needs to be done, as evidenced by the lax attitude around scanning QR codes and this being the second person to be roaming around with symptoms. They may not want to get heavy for fear of people shying away from testing, but isn't it time to get a little tougher?
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@nzzp said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter some good points made there, however this latest person went for their test then went to the gym and a bunch of other stops (despite being told to isolate until the test was complete) from what I heard. Frustrating
That specific example is a little annoying but I'm not ready to hang a kid out to dry when the real failing is that of the government.
having symptoms, getting tested and then going to the gym is not cool at all in a Covid risk time. If you're 21, you should know better; blaming the government isn't great - they are in no way the main problem here
No, 21 year olds do stupid shit all the time. They are often driven by emotion over reason, because their brains haven't actually finished developing. I cringe when I think about how I acted when I was 21. If all of our hopes rest on the shoulders of a 21 year old doing the right thing when the country is at level 1 then we may as well not even bother.
The decision to drop to level 1 when we 1) didn't know the source and 2) hadn't allowed for the 10 - 14 day incubation period to determine if there was a wider outbreak was wrong and the government just has to wear that on the chin. The way they have blamed people for not "following the rules" is just stirring shit among the public to get them off the hook for their own mistake.
Again I'm not prepared to hang a 21 year old out to dry for making a bad decision. The overall message from the government was that this was not serious, otherwise they would not have dropped the alert levels.
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The government has a lot the answer for. David Seymour was on TV this morning and made a number of good points
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Since covid19 started they have not installed a proper digital tracing system that does not rely on individual compliance. This was recommended in a report that the government apparently released around Christmas so it slipped through unnoticed
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The vaccination programme is a mess. They don't have any clear plan. A relative who is a tier 1a worker was contacted last night and told they could go get their first shot straight away. They went down immediately and it turns out the station had a tonne of Pfizer vaccine which needed to be used but didn't have anyone to administer it to. There was no queue, very little activity on site
We are bumbling our way through this thing
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@no-quarter govt def need to take plenty of blame, but where does self responsibility stop?
This person is in the workforce, so should be well aware of the risks posed, dumb arsed complacency by so many.
Despite me insisting, neither of my kids scan, but then I guess I know exactly where they are supposed to be 99% of the time.
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@taniwharugby I think both things can be true. The government has pushed the message to scan, to stay home when sick and get tested. But as evidenced by the last two incidents some people don't obey the rules. The government don't appear to have appreciated the fact that some people will not comply and have not moved to install a system that does not rely on individual compliance.