Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p Not having a go at you or any of the other Ferners struggling to return to NZ but there is a lot of fake news about MIQ as well.
The dialogue is that there are tens of thousands of Kiwis clamouring to return to NZ who have been locked out for nearly two years and the government is disregarding them in a cruel and callous way.
Leaving aside the fact that a sizeable number of current residents want the government to shut the border completely because it's filthy MIQ bastards causing all our issues, the situation as I described it in the first sentence is more nuanced and while I'm not that bothered some of the commentary irks me.
Yes the latest tranche of MIQ slots to become available was massively oversubscribed which is a clear indication that demand currently outstrips supply. However the notion that this has been a constant since February 2020 is an absolute nonsense. As recently as March this year you could get a slot in MIQ relatively easy. You might have had to be a little flexible over dates and you couldn't decide to book on a whim but plenty of slots were available.
Delta like in so many other ways was a game changer, particularly after everything started going tits up in NSW.
A large number of those wanting to get into MIQ are economic refugees who had a chance to get back to NZ in 2020 and decided to ignore it, presumably because they decided life was better where they were.
I am getting tired of media reports from 'Kiwi's' who say they have been trying to get back into NZ for two years and are being shut out and we've had to sell the house coz we lost our jobs and, and , and IT'S SO UNFAIR.
Here's the reality for these people. Covid struck. Oz goes into Lockdown. You lose your job. Oz govt policies means the welfare safety net doesn't apply to you. NZ suddenly looks very attractive. Well it will as short term option but really you've lived in Oz for over 10 years, your kids were born there, your friends all live there and but for the Oz govt you're dinky di Ockers with a funny accent. All of which means that as soon as the situation improves for you back across the ditch you'll be straight on a plane back to wherever you currently live.
But NZ's the arsehole in all this?
As I said I appreciate the above is not true for everyone and there are really sad cases of families being unable to reunite etc - many of which have been shared here. I genuinely feel for these people, but what's the alternative? NZ are not in a position to open the borders (yet) to everyone because our health system won't cope.
I do think that Immigration could and should look into cases more deeply and apply some sort of hardship weighting. Stopping giving priority to the Wiggles would be a start. The govt is trying to set up more MIQ hotels but is meeting resistance from local communities as wo wants a plague hotel next door?
Agreed. Has been the big risk in going to Oz to live for decades now. No support if things turn to shit. Can't blame NZ if you want to run home to take advantage of the support here.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think I read something like 20,000 people tried to get into MIQ around the Christmas period with 2,000 spots available?
in my folly i read social media around this
apparently a lot of NZers see this as disgraceful
"fuck those people who just want to come at the holidays! why should they be allowed to? My health and safety is far more important than their need to see family at christmas"
real fucking charmers aye?
I did too, I won't again ... let's just say the what I read lacked any empathy for real people's lives. It's like you're a bad kiwi if you're living and working overseas. Second class citizen much?
I must be pond-scum then whose selfish goal in visiting is to infect people given I'm not even a kiwi
Omg
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heard last night on the radio that the 6 "shot bro" buses that are gonna help us ramp up the vaccine rates have delivered in a week a grand total of.....
...400 vaccines.. that's not even 10 a day per bus.
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The Fern is the closest I get to reading social media.
Life's too short and I really don't need to know when people have had a dump.
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@williethewaiter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
heard last night on the radio that the 6 "shot bro" buses that are gonna help us ramp up the vaccine rates have delivered in a week a grand total of.....
...400 vaccines.. that's not even 10 a day per bus.
Had to be tried though. The message was that certain groups found getting to a vax destination too hard and this 'solution ' was being called for by all sides. I think Judith Muldoon called for it the day it started.
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@williethewaiter arent they all in Auckland?
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm just pissed that when I got my jab yesterday I wasn't offered a bacon butty.
I would have driven to New Plymouth for itt bar the border lockdown.
I mis-read that as 'tit' and thought 'stripper jab busses' -- you'll get a certain demographic for sure.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As I said I appreciate the above is not true for everyone and there are really sad cases of families being unable to reunite etc - many of which have been shared here. I genuinely feel for these people, but what's the alternative? NZ are not in a position to open the borders (yet) to everyone because our health system won't cope.
MIQ is only a thing because that's the REAL scandal no one seems to be calling out imho ... healthcare. Presumably decades of cutting and under-investment?
Returnees are victims of the root cause.
I don't think having MIQ is unfair, I don't think capacity limits or issues are unfair. But not putting up a roadmap is unfair.
I'm an adult, just tell me reality so I can deal with it and plan accordingly. That's what adults do.
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@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As I said I appreciate the above is not true for everyone and there are really sad cases of families being unable to reunite etc - many of which have been shared here. I genuinely feel for these people, but what's the alternative? NZ are not in a position to open the borders (yet) to everyone because our health system won't cope.
MIQ is only a thing because that's the REAL scandal no one seems to be calling out imho ... healthcare. Presumably decades of cutting and under-investment?
Returnees are victims of the root cause.
I don't think having MIQ is unfair, I don't think capacity limits or issues are unfair. But not putting up a roadmap is unfair.
I'm an adult, just tell me reality so I can deal with it and plan accordingly. That's what adults do.
Totally agree about the healthcare. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I would like to see focus on an even stronger drive to vaccinate and getting the health system ready.
As for the other, I see your frustration but there is a roadmap. Currently it reads 'we have limited spaces so good luck getting a spot'. You can plan around that for now. I don't see that will change except due to parameters you have no control over anyway so again, no way of 'planning'.
I'd also prefer a priority system, but if I made it 'coming back for a family BBQ' (no insult intended) would be well down the list. -
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
As I said I appreciate the above is not true for everyone and there are really sad cases of families being unable to reunite etc - many of which have been shared here. I genuinely feel for these people, but what's the alternative? NZ are not in a position to open the borders (yet) to everyone because our health system won't cope.
MIQ is only a thing because that's the REAL scandal no one seems to be calling out imho ... healthcare. Presumably decades of cutting and under-investment?
Returnees are victims of the root cause.
I don't think having MIQ is unfair, I don't think capacity limits or issues are unfair. But not putting up a roadmap is unfair.
I'm an adult, just tell me reality so I can deal with it and plan accordingly. That's what adults do.
As for the other, I see your frustration but there is a roadmap. Currently it reads 'we have limited spaces so good luck getting a spot'. You can plan around that for now. I don't see that will change except due to parameters you have no control over anyway so again, no way of 'planning'.
That's not a roadmap. Well it isn't a roadmap that any successful enterprise would use.
That is a point of time report not a map.
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@crucial That's not a roadmap ...
You do know it's okay for a Government to put up a high-level roadmap with dates and some phases and say it's all subject to change because Covid situations are fluid? ... that's normal big-organization stuff let alone government. State their key assumptions and constraints and controls locally and on MIQ/imported infections that NZ can handle/ cannot handle. Reference healthcare capacity in the constraints etc. Talk surge capacity. 10 slides, max.
Anyway would nice to have something that can inform me when MIQ might be dropped (or if it ever will be?)
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Shaun Hendy on presser giving latest modelling
Vax alone won't give herd immunity at 90% of over 5's
However if you add in
Masks
Rapid Tests
Social Distancing
Contact Tracing
Limited border controlsyou can make it no worse than seasonal flu without lockdowns
However if we achieve only 80% of 5+ and relied only on vax modeling says 60K cases and 7K deaths p.a. so we would need to retain lockdowns
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
However if we achieve only 80% of 5+ and relied only on vax modeling says 60K cases and 7K deaths p.a. so we would need to retain lockdowns
IF the models are correct, then that's the discussion we have. There are tradeoffs - and you better align the cost of 7,000 deaths with the spend on Pharmac, road safety, etc. Ideally we pick the 'best' option.
again, IF the modelling is correct. The track record hasn't been super flash. Useful, but not definitive.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Shaun Hendy on presser giving latest modelling
Vax alone won't give herd immunity at 90% of over 5's
However if you add in
> Masks
Rapid Tests
Social Distancing
Contact Tracing
Limited border controlsyou can make it no worse than seasonal flu without lockdowns
However if we achieve only 80% of 5+ and relied only on vax modeling says 60K cases and 7K deaths p.a. so we would need to retain lockdowns
I'm more interested in how many people would die at 90% if we don't all live as anti-social hermits in perpetuity.
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@nzzp although most of the modelling is around 'worst case' scenarios aren't they, which seems to be what they share with the public, assume at higher level they do other modelling too.
We know lockdowns aren't sustainable and won't keep it out, we won't get to 90% vaccination...so what's next option
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@l_n_p said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial That's not a roadmap ...
You do know it's okay for a Government to put up a high-level roadmap with dates and some phases and say it's all subject to change because Covid situations are fluid? ... that's normal big-organization stuff let alone government. State their key assumptions and constraints and controls locally and on MIQ/imported infections that NZ can handle/ cannot handle. Reference healthcare capacity in the constraints etc. Talk surge capacity. 10 slides, max.
Anyway would nice to have something that can inform me when MIQ might be dropped (or if it ever will be?)
I don't get your logic. Let's say that the govt laid out a plan that had 90% vaccination rates complete by end of January at which time MIQ would drop to 5 days for vaccinated travellers, freeing up many rooms with higher turnover.
Then you start planning a trip for next March. Save your pennies, book a flight, tell everyone, get leave organised etc
We don't reach the target so it's pushed back a month as per the stated roadmap meaning that your MIQ booking has now been lost and you have to replan.
Then we get an outbreak via a vaccinated traveller etc etc etcWhere has this stated roadmap got you? A better place?
This is a constantly changing situation and moves forward get made step by step as and when an opening to do so arises, not when planned months ago.
I'm sorry if I seem harsh but I used to have to deal with similar situations daily from expats in situations overseas. The reality is that if you live away from family in another country you can't always have things work out. I myself missed two funerals, one for my grandmother and that was simply due to the logistics of me getting back holding things up for everyone else. Just this year my son and partner were stuck in the UK having decided to ride out the first lockdown there where at least they had income but their visas then didn't have much longer to run. It was three weeks of 24hr monitoring of the booking site to land a spot that was then 6 weeks away.
You live in another country to your loved ones and you simply have to take it on the chin.It's shit but shit happens. There are always those worse off.