Electric Vehicles
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@gt12 said in Electric Vehicles:
Interesting test this - things I took out of it was if you are a skier/snowboarder, get a roof box.
If you can't be bothered watching the whole thing (which is long), go to 19:22 and you can see the battery used over 10miles/estimated range for each of the situations tested (fuck having a caravan).
Need caravans with batteries in the base to act as extra charge for the car!
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@machpants said in Electric Vehicles:
@gt12 said in Electric Vehicles:
Interesting test this - things I took out of it was if you are a skier/snowboarder, get a roof box.
If you can't be bothered watching the whole thing (which is long), go to 19:22 and you can see the battery used over 10miles/estimated range for each of the situations tested (fuck having a caravan).
Need caravans with batteries in the base to act as extra charge for the car!
A few companies are already looking at this I believe. Only problem is you're adding more weight!
There was a couple of Yanks tested the Rivian's towing and it basically halved the range - tho it was in Colorado driving a big mountain road with about 3600kg load, so no shock there. Not as much regen on the downhill as expected tho.
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@machpants said in Electric Vehicles:
@gt12 said in Electric Vehicles:
Interesting test this - things I took out of it was if you are a skier/snowboarder, get a roof box.
If you can't be bothered watching the whole thing (which is long), go to 19:22 and you can see the battery used over 10miles/estimated range for each of the situations tested (fuck having a caravan).
Need caravans with batteries in the base to act as extra charge for the car!
A few companies are already looking at this I believe. Only problem is you're adding more weight!
There was a couple of Yanks tested the Rivian's towing and it basically halved the range - tho it was in Colorado driving a big mountain road with about 3600kg load, so no shock there. Not as much regen on the downhill as expected tho.
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
Interesting in regards to the whole vehicle fleet though.
Take the example of 'workhorse' vehicles for say, farming. Range isn't necessary a problem but could become one if the reduction in range from things like towing is this dramatic.
A trailer full of sheep? Fencing gear? Portable yards. Feeding out
You still need to get a (long) days work done without going back to base for a charge.Yes, an ICEV will also have reduced range but more like 20% than 50%
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@crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
Interesting in regards to the whole vehicle fleet though.
Take the example of 'workhorse' vehicles for say, farming. Range isn't necessary a problem but could become one if the reduction in range from things like towing is this dramatic.
A trailer full of sheep? Fencing gear? Portable yards. Feeding out
You still need to get a (long) days work done without going back to base for a charge.Yes, an ICEV will also have reduced range but more like 20% than 50%
Valid concern, tho I think in an ICEV it more like 30% drop in efficiency for these heavy or aerodynamically inefficient loads - lot of factors to consider.
Going back to the Rivian test I mentioned:
This is at highway speeds - where EVs aren't quite as efficient as lower speeds with stop-start characteristics - with 3.6t on the back climbing a gradient. A caravan isn't that heavy but suffers more from drag.
The surprising bit for me was the low regen when they headed downhill - only a few km put back in the battery. Cold weather issue? Driving mode not set up right?
The farm scenario you're describing is a little different, so I don't think you're going to see a 50% reduction for most tasks around the paddocks, or even going into town with that load of sheep. The superior torque factor for an EV would offset the high revs needed in an ICEV depending on terrain and usage.
As with anything, it comes down to the individual circumstances. A lot of people moving to an EV make a few simple changes to ensure they're not going to have range issues in the day-to-day - towing 3 tons isn't generally one of them. Driving 800km without a recharge (like a diesel) is a while away yet.
I think a few farmers would like a world in which they don't have to get diesel trucked into the farm, and just use their solar/storage to recharge all their equipment tho
Speaking of farm work - the same channel doing the test above did this with an R1T:
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
Interesting in regards to the whole vehicle fleet though.
Take the example of 'workhorse' vehicles for say, farming. Range isn't necessary a problem but could become one if the reduction in range from things like towing is this dramatic.
A trailer full of sheep? Fencing gear? Portable yards. Feeding out
You still need to get a (long) days work done without going back to base for a charge.Yes, an ICEV will also have reduced range but more like 20% than 50%
Valid concern, tho I think in an ICEV it more like 30% drop in efficiency for these heavy or aerodynamically inefficient loads - lot of factors to consider.
Thanks for the vids. Will watch.
My 20% guess is based on my own experience towing and/or using roofboxes. Loaded up for a trip away with roofbox, bikes and a 500kg camper reduces range by about 20% eg I may go from 10km per litre to 8km
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
Maybe today that is a solution, but charging tech has changed rapidly (ha ha) in the last few years and will continue to do so. Energy density for cells has doubled in the last decade and new technologies promise even more improvements.
A lot of urban dwellers could skip straight past hybrid to an EV, and only have to think about their charging strategy when they go away for the occasional weekend. Price still being the primary barrier, and the chicken-and-egg analysis of EV numbers versus charging infrastructure.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
Maybe today that is a solution, but charging tech has changed rapidly (ha ha) in the last few years and will continue to do so. Energy density for cells has doubled in the last decade and new technologies promise even more improvements.
A lot of urban dwellers could skip straight past hybrid to an EV, and only have to think about their charging strategy when they go away for the occasional weekend. Price still being the primary barrier, and the chicken-and-egg analysis of EV numbers versus charging infrastructure.
The olds have recently got a PHEV and yes, apart from the odd longer trip they hardly ever use petrol. The (small) range of the E has them easily covered for day to day use and they have invested in a proper charge setup at home to take advantage of off-peak charging and look after itself.
On a long trip it doesn't save that much petrol (even with dad trying to eek out every bit from E) unless they stop somewhere for a while and juice up. -
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
Going back to an earlier point I made: people talk about the effect of towing on EV range, yet generally ignore the fact something similar is going to happen to an ICEV. So no big deal, just try to be as efficient as possible regardless.
The difference is immense once you account for the time taken to refuel and cover a distance. The solution is hybrids.
Maybe today that is a solution, but charging tech has changed rapidly (ha ha) in the last few years and will continue to do so. Energy density for cells has doubled in the last decade and new technologies promise even more improvements.
"promise".
A lot of urban dwellers could skip straight past hybrid to an EV
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
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@crucial and that EV part of the drive train is pushing a helluva lot of dead weight when the internal combustion parts are asleep.
Volvo XC40 PHEV weighs around 1700kg compared to the standard XC40 FWD 1550kg (AWD 1610kg).
They tend not to charge as fast as full EVs too. You can get some mindblowing MPG out of them of course.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
So the EV component of your hybrid is going to get about 15-20km, yes?
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@crucial and that EV part of the drive train is pushing a helluva lot of dead weight when the internal combustion parts are asleep.
Volvo XC40 PHEV weighs around 1700kg compared to the standard XC40 FWD 1550kg (AWD 1610kg).
They tend not to charge as fast as full EVs too. You can get some mindblowing MPG out of them of course.
I think MPG over a year would be mighty fine. MPG on a single trip varies with distance and when he drove from BOP to Welly (in one hit) it wasn't mind blowing at all. About the same as if I pop up to see them in our little old Swift.
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@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
So the EV component of your hybrid is going to get about 15-20km, yes?
WTF are you talking about? A hybrid that's designed to use the benefit of electric motors in high torque demands (starting, hills, etc.) and cruise / regen downhill and on straights. In the same way that's the solution for volumetric road transport.
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@crucial said in Electric Vehicles:
About the same as if I pop up to see them in our little old Swift.
My Toyota Corolla Wagon was awesome for fuel efficiency. One trip I'd replaced tyres and suspension in the space of a week, and a mate and I went on a road trip. It was pretty good to start with, then outside Dubbo heading south we found a truck to sit behind for about 200km - didn't need air con either. I think that tank I got close to 700km (50L).
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@antipodean I think he assumed you meant a PHEV
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@nta said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
We were talking about towing caravans, yes?
So the EV component of your hybrid is going to get about 15-20km, yes?
WTF are you talking about? A hybrid that's designed to use the benefit of electric motors in high torque demands (starting, hills, etc.) and cruise / regen downhill and on straights.
Which is reduced greatly in highway or open road driving per the test videos above - in this scenario the battery is dead weight after about the first 20km in a PHEV. And you're using a very small engine for the rest of it, so carbon fuel efficiency dives as well. PHEV regen isn't crash hot compared to full EV because the intrinsic design is for petrol to do the majority of load.
Hybrid design could be much more efficient to take advantage of this without doubt, but you're trading off weight/space.
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean I think he assumed you meant a PHEV
I'm not swayed either way. I think @NTA and I may be agreeing but talking cross purposes. I agree wholeheartedly that if you're a suburban dweller an EV makes eminently more sense given the average commute is only 30-40km. My suggestion for towing things is to get something designed for the task.
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this should not be a surprise. Look at your fuel usage towing a caravan.