Hurricanes vs Rebels
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@KiwiMurph said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
One thing the Canes have done well all season is slick looking backline moves. Really create space well.
Canes have always had a lot backs with flair, so naturally play that way.
Yes, but there's been a noticeable difference with their attacking structures since Holland was appointed attack coach back in 2016, really inventive ways of creating & exploitating space, lots of players in motion, very creative & varied attacking lines and angles, great coached support play, etc. there was some analyses done on the Roar site last year which highlighted the uniqueness of the Hurricanes attacking structures compared to other NZ franchises.
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@number9 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@canefan Not at all mate. I have no idea who the Admins are, but "being over sensitive" is part of their job description.
Aaaah so it could be all admins in the world are sensitive, but it could also be you're a cockwomble when it comes to online interactions!
In the forces we had a maxim that every course had one fluffybunny on it, and if you couldn;t identify who that fluffybunny was, it was you
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@kiwi_expat said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@KiwiMurph said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
One thing the Canes have done well all season is slick looking backline moves. Really create space well.
Canes have always had a lot backs with flair, so naturally play that way.
Yes, but there's been a noticeable difference with their attacking structures since Holland was appointed attack coach back in 2016, really inventive ways of creating & exploitating space, lots of players in motion, very creative & varied attacking lines and angles, great coached support play, etc. there was some analyses done on the Roar site last year which highlighted the uniqueness of the Hurricanes attacking structures compared to other NZ franchises.
Mate, wouldn't give that pillock Holland too much credit for that, players varying their lines & angles to create gaps & space isn't new... it's crucial for players run off each other on different angles etc to try & break down those flat defences, other than kicking into space.
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Holland is very much a details coach, not particularly suited to the head coach/man-manager role:
"Boyd is very much a manager-style head coach, not heavily involved in the technical coaching on the pitch, and Holland enjoys those responsibilities."
"He's quite different but passionate about it and we complement each other quite well because he loves the motivation and puts a bit of ticker into it, whereas I tend to put a bit more into detail and he can come in as the bad cop sometimes," says Holland.
"I just want to be out on the grass – technical, tactical, skills, how are we going to play, how are we going to break this down – that's what excites me."
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@kiwi_expat said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Holland is very much a details coach, not particularly suited to the head coach/man-manager role:
"Boyd is very much a manager-style head coach, not heavily involved in the technical coaching on the pitch, and Holland enjoys those responsibilities."
"He's quite different but passionate about it and we complement each other quite well because he loves the motivation and puts a bit of ticker into it, whereas I tend to put a bit more into detail and he can come in as the bad cop sometimes," says Holland.
"I just want to be out on the grass – technical, tactical, skills, how are we going to play, how are we going to break this down – that's what excites me."
To be fair to him he never applied for the role. They gave it to him when Plumtree left at the last minute. But they didn't need to renew him as HC...
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@Machpants said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@number9 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@canefan Not at all mate. I have no idea who the Admins are, but "being over sensitive" is part of their job description.
Aaaah so it could be all admins in the world are sensitive, but it could also be you're a cockwomble when it comes to online interactions!
In the forces we had a maxim that every course had one fluffybunny on it, and if you couldn;t identify who that fluffybunny was, it was you
You definitely meet the JD.
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@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@kiwi_expat said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Holland is very much a details coach, not particularly suited to the head coach/man-manager role:
"Boyd is very much a manager-style head coach, not heavily involved in the technical coaching on the pitch, and Holland enjoys those responsibilities."
"He's quite different but passionate about it and we complement each other quite well because he loves the motivation and puts a bit of ticker into it, whereas I tend to put a bit more into detail and he can come in as the bad cop sometimes," says Holland.
"I just want to be out on the grass – technical, tactical, skills, how are we going to play, how are we going to break this down – that's what excites me."
To be fair to him he never applied for the role. They gave it to him when Plumtree left at the last minute. But they didn't need to renew him as HC...
I always though Plumtree was a better assistant coach than head coach. Holland might be the same. But I always though Beauden Barrett played his best rugby for the Canes before Holland took over (from Laidlaw).
Blackwell was Plumtree's number 1 lock as well. And I guess his selection has more to do with Gibbes.
But if we make progress from the quarters to the semi's and hold onto most of our key players I'll be happy enough for this year. I never expected much anyway
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@Winger said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@kiwi_expat said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Holland is very much a details coach, not particularly suited to the head coach/man-manager role:
"Boyd is very much a manager-style head coach, not heavily involved in the technical coaching on the pitch, and Holland enjoys those responsibilities."
"He's quite different but passionate about it and we complement each other quite well because he loves the motivation and puts a bit of ticker into it, whereas I tend to put a bit more into detail and he can come in as the bad cop sometimes," says Holland.
"I just want to be out on the grass – technical, tactical, skills, how are we going to play, how are we going to break this down – that's what excites me."
To be fair to him he never applied for the role. They gave it to him when Plumtree left at the last minute. But they didn't need to renew him as HC...
I always though Plumtree was a better assistant coach than head coach. Holland might be the same. But I always though Beauden Barrett played his best rugby for the Canes before Holland took over (from Laidlaw).
Blackwell was Plumtree's number 1 lock as well. And I guess his selection has more to do with Gibbes.
But if we make progress from the quarters to the semi's and hold onto most of our key players I'll be happy enough for this year. I never expected much anyway
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
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@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Well the continual precense of these players get me wondering, then I consider the Canes are doing a bit better than I thought they would could possibly mean I not as expert as I thought I was, and that may just include whether these players should be there. I don't have a problem with J Savea being there, as I think he a competent super class player.
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@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Well the continual precense of these players get me wondering, then I consider the Canes are doing a bit better than I thought they would could possibly mean I not as expert as I thought I was, and that may just include whether these players should be there. I don't have a problem with J Savea being there, as I think he a competent super class player.
Or perhaps we are in our current position in spite of the selection missteps of the coach?
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@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Well the continual precense of these players get me wondering, then I consider the Canes are doing a bit better than I thought they would could possibly mean I not as expert as I thought I was, and that may just include whether these players should be there. I don't have a problem with J Savea being there, as I think he a competent super class player.
Or perhaps we are in our current position in spite of the selection missteps of the coach?
No mate, it doesn't work like that, I suspect coaches who actually run the trainings, and game day plans etc, would perhaps have more idea than you and I who should be playing. If the Canes lost every game would you say it despite the selections? I can say I have thought I would at times select different players, bit I'm a keyboard warrior who doesn't have to get any results so don't know what happens at trainings, what the players GPS numbers are etc etc. I have only been down to WQellington for 1 game this year, so can hardly claim to have more knowledge than the coaching staff etc.
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I've said before Holland generally seems to have the team playing well - that's not his issue IMO.
They're not far off beating the big boys. I mean we were just pipped by the Saders & Chiefs, and beat the Blues this year.
But him, and the coaching group, are poor selectors. We've been saying for years JGB & Princep aren't up to it. The other options were always much more compelling (and proving to be).
That being said, I unfortunately think once Princep is fit he'll revert back to him which is a shame.
The other problem is the chopping and changing. A player gets dropped after a good performance, yet some are retained after continued mediocrity.
Sullivan is a good example - after the Blues game it was quite obvious the kid is our long term 13, but it took weeks before Holland saw that.
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@Dan54 that perspective doesn't really sit well with me.
If I looked at the group, I'd say Blackwell and Princep are probably the best trainers. But is Blackwell better than IWL? No. Yet Blackwell is about an automatic selection as Ardie is in the Canes.
Is Princep better than any other loosie? No
I think having an outsider view on selection helps - you don't get clouded by what you see during the week. Not that it isn't important, but training performance is not game day performance.
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@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
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@NZbloke said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Higgins said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
Yep as a Canes' man I have to say, perhaps I have to give Holland credit as team has probably done better than I thought they would preseason, so just perhaps they Canes board know a fraction more than us??
How does that tie in with the continued perseverance with R. Prinsep and J. Garden-Bachop and J. Savea?
Exactly, Holland's has made some very strange selections, especially blokes like Princep & JGB, also keeps switching around combinations every game making it bloody difficult for us to get good continuity going... if we had a coach with good nous we would be higher up the table & would have a home playoff locked in.
I think you are in the right spot on the table. It was the loss to MP that has potentially lost a home quarter. There is zero argument that stands up that you would be higher than 4th if the things you mention didn't happen.
Almost every NZ team has had to chop and change this season. You guys aren't alone in that regard.
I think there is little understanding from fans as to just how difficult managing this season has been and keep expecting the top comboto be rolled out each week. Some coaches have managed better though, I will admit.
Chiefs stated before the season started that they could see lots of disruption ahead and managing/preparing the whole squad was going to be key to fortunes. -
@foobaNZ said in Hurricanes vs Rebels:
@Dan54 that perspective doesn't really sit well with me.
If I looked at the group, I'd say Blackwell and Princep are probably the best trainers. But is Blackwell better than IWL? No. Yet Blackwell is about an automatic selection as Ardie is in the Canes.
Is Princep better than any other loosie? No
I think having an outsider view on selection helps - you don't get clouded by what you see during the week. Not that it isn't important, but training performance is not game day performance.
Take my word for it mate, after a reasonable amount of years coaching, I can assure you that training comes into it a fair bit. Someone who doesn't do the work at training will not put in the effort in the game when things get real tough. I always reckon one of the things that stuck out for me at test matches with ABs, I tended to get there wll before game, and when they were playing the first 2 out on field to start warming up etc were Richie McCaw and Dan Carter. Good players do not take short cuts in preparation or training ever!! Even today you look at someone like aaron Smith, generally 30 minutes ahead of rest of Highlanders at gym etc to do is own extras he feels he needs. An outsider's view is always good, (hence why Fox was bought into Abs panel)but only to make sure you think of and more angles but would never trump would never be more important than people who set game plan etc.
I not saying all the selections are ones I agree with and would probably agree with your selections from my limited knowledge, but I see most games on tv so really only often see what that shows me not the real picture. I was a real IWL goer but not overly convinced, and Scrafton I was yelling from rooftops when we scored him, but he disappointed me a little in game I saw him live.
See I think Canes have done better than I thought they would, so I guess someone has to get some of the credit.