The Current State of Rugby
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@Damo said in The Current State of Rugby:
I have to say I thought there were 2 red cards from Ireland tonight that were more culpable than Ta'avao's last week.
I get that the first one was missed but I cannot understand how the guy who colided with Brodies' face didn't get a Red Card.
It's just farcical at the moment. Nobody would claim that Foster's ABs deserved to win and were robbed, but that sort of inconsistency in refereeing brings the game into disrepute.
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.The RWC is a separate competition that generates revenue outside of the 6N. If it just becomes another 6N but without the history then it'd be massively devalued. I really don't think they'd want to fuck it up.
They'd love to see France or Ireland win the 2023 RWC for the first time
Oi
What about us? 😉
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@MiketheSnow said in The Current State of Rugby:
@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.The RWC is a separate competition that generates revenue outside of the 6N. If it just becomes another 6N but without the history then it'd be massively devalued. I really don't think they'd want to fuck it up.
They'd love to see France or Ireland win the 2023 RWC for the first time
Oi
What about us? 😉
Yeah you lot too
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mariner4life said in The Current State of Rugby:
What has become apparent (well, what has been rammed home really) in the past 10 days is that rugby has allowed itself to become a sport where the refereeing panel are no longer just there to facilitate the game and allow it to happen, but have become nearly the most important people on the pitch (or box). Rugby is no longer about 30 players, it is about 30 players, and 4 officials whose remit has become sanctioning every single act on the field to its fullest extent.
The term rugby accident no longer has any meaning. Angus Ta'avao got his face caved in and got a red card. LF was in the air and got a yellow. In the England v Australia game two attempted intercepts got two players binned. Papali'i got penalised for a perfect cleanout because the touchie thought something else happened and had to get on the pitch.
Rugby is obsessed with getting people off the pitch. In a game defined by the fact it is a constant contest, players are sent from the field for contesting. Cards are flying thick and fast. AWJ got carded for absolutely nothing but suspicion on the weekend. How is that in any way acceptable?
And i absolutely do not blame the referees even one bit. This comes down to the lawmakers, their guidelines, and the instructions given to their referees. This is the game World Rugby want. Every controversial incident is met with a new, far stricter than required guideline in case it happens again. And that guidelines normally involves another player off the pitch. Professional Rugby is, above all else, a form of entertainment, and yet here we have a governing body obsessed with actively degrading their product, to appease who?
And yet, for some, they do not go far enough. Look at the chat in rugby media after every test. "this is a disgrace, there should have been more cards!! that card wasn't harsh enough, it should have been red!" every single fucking week. Pre-game the focus is on the ref, and what they should look at. Post-game the focus is on the ref, and what they misses, and who else should have been sent from the field.
I have heard more about Jaco in the press than the fucking players over the past couple of days. In what world is that the best outcome?
Long time fans are becoming more and more disillusioned. Casual fans are turning it off. And the response will probably e another crack down and more cards. Awesome.
i honestly believe that we'd have less issues with things like AT head knock if we didn't see cards for all the much more trivial things, failed intercepts, repeated minor offences like off sides...but also NOT seeing them for the early tackle...its all bloody guess work
I'd suggest its the opposite - the IRB has decided that they need to protect the head and have used disciplinary actions (yellow/red cards) to try and eliminate any head knocks. Sounds fine in theory...
In practice, accidental/unavoidable head hits are much more common than the IRB have been willing to admit (publicly at least) and deliberate head hits continue to go unpunished leading to the perception of unfairness. This is exacerbated by the rules placing the responsibility of the tackled players safety on the tackler in-spite 70% of head injury assessments in elite RU from tackle situations being experienced by the tackler and 30% by the ball carrier (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/348701038_Genetic_Factors_That_Could_Affect_Concussion_Risk_in_Elite_Rugby). This is backed up by the number of HIA's per 1000 hours of elite rugby has increasing over the last 10 years in-spite of the rule changes and the rate of increase is higher than Rugby League over the same period.
On top of that, the social media comments would suggest fans want the cards to disadvantage the opposition. Se we move away from a game of rugby being played and instead the focus is on the ref/TMO and the hoped for cards.
I acknowledge there will continue to be a place for red and yellow cards in preventing HIA's for clear foul play, but other remedies such as reducing the number of subs will likely have a bigger impact in bringing the number of HIA's down as it reduces the mismatch in fatigue levels that results in many of the more severe HIA's. For cards, my preference would be clearer mitigating circumstances around the dynamic nature of tackles - for instance I do not believe any player tries to tackle an opponent face-on-face so changing that from a likely red card to a penalty reduces the effort to decide punishment and allows TMO interventions to become less common and in the process allows the game to be played rather than just "refereed".
Basically, the current rules are changing rugby as a game with minimal benefit for elite players (it may differ at other levels but I haven't seen the stats to show differing outcomes). Or I'm old and grouchy. Or both.
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@No-Quarter said in The Current State of Rugby:
@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.The RWC is a separate competition that generates revenue outside of the 6N. If it just becomes another 6N but without the history then it'd be massively devalued. I really don't think they'd want to fuck it up.
They'd love to see France or Ireland win the 2023 RWC for the first time
Likely quarters (top of group first):
France vs Ireland
South Africa vs New Zealand
Australia vs Argentina
England vs WalesThe pool A/B games may be reversed (France vs South Africa/New Zealand vs Ireland) but I don't see any alternatives making the top 2.
For pool C/D maybe Japan can sneak in ahead of Argentina or Wales can top pool C but I don't think we will see a France vs Ireland final.
I'd favour Australia/England to make one of the final spots just because they will avoid playing two of France/Ireland/New Zealand/South Africa.
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What's the bet that there is deadly silence regarding the YC and the head knock that removed Ofa from the game.
All talk about head injuries but we also can't spoil a good story.I actually agree with Barnes about the YC. The framework says that he is to take 'passive' into account. What shits me is that it wasn't the week before (and upheld). So which is it.
As for Aki on Ofa, did I imagine that I heard the TMO say 'just clumsy'?
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@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
What's the bet that there is deadly silence regarding the YC and the head knock that removed Ofa from the game.
All talk about head injuries but we also can't spoil a good story.I actually agree with Barnes about the YC. The framework says that he is to take 'passive' into account. What shits me is that it wasn't the week before (and upheld). So which is it.
As for Aki on Ofa, did I imagine that I heard the TMO say 'just clumsy'?
It didn't cost us the game, but incidents like this certainly breed a victim's mentality
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
What's the bet that there is deadly silence regarding the YC and the head knock that removed Ofa from the game.
All talk about head injuries but we also can't spoil a good story.I actually agree with Barnes about the YC. The framework says that he is to take 'passive' into account. What shits me is that it wasn't the week before (and upheld). So which is it.
As for Aki on Ofa, did I imagine that I heard the TMO say 'just clumsy'?
I didn't cost us the game, but incidents like this certainly breed a victim's mentality
No, I haven't connected the result or performance with what happened (or didn't). This is about problems in rugby and the mixed messages sent and received by those playing and watching.
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@canefan said in The Current State of Rugby:
@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
What's the bet that there is deadly silence regarding the YC and the head knock that removed Ofa from the game.
All talk about head injuries but we also can't spoil a good story.I actually agree with Barnes about the YC. The framework says that he is to take 'passive' into account. What shits me is that it wasn't the week before (and upheld). So which is it.
As for Aki on Ofa, did I imagine that I heard the TMO say 'just clumsy'?
I didn't cost us the game, but incidents like this certainly breed a victim's mentality
Yep, on the one hand I'm happy the Irishman didn't get a red card, on the other I'm completely pissed Angus did, for exactly the same thing.
When they put up the steps on the tv I still can't see how they got past the second or third one of "foul play" to even get to the mitigation down from red. In neither case was it foul play. The word foul really has no meaning under WR guidelines.
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This is the problem WR are trying (badly) to battle. Very hard when you have a high impact high speed contact sport
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The more we slow the game down and the more players we have who only need to play 30 minutes the bigger the players get. the bigger the players get, the bigger the impacts get and the less able they are to avoid impacts, so the worse the injuries get. The end point is american football and helmets.
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@Crucial said in The Current State of Rugby:
What's the bet that there is deadly silence regarding the YC and the head knock that removed Ofa from the game.
All talk about head injuries but we also can't spoil a good story.I actually agree with Barnes about the YC. The framework says that he is to take 'passive' into account. What shits me is that it wasn't the week before (and upheld). So which is it.
As for Aki on Ofa, did I imagine that I heard the TMO say 'just clumsy'?
Barrett didn't get penalised or cited for his clumsiness in test 1 on Aki. So on that one, they were at least consistent.
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@mikedogz That clown Sumo Stevenson was on the Irish "second captains" podcast in the build up the first test. It's the most popular sports pod in Ireland.
They asked him about covid in the NZ camp and he came out with some of the biggest horseshit id ever heard.
He said he couldn't believe that the NZ team had gone and held an open training session in an area of NZ with the lowest vaccination rate. Blamed the players catching it on that. The podcast was on the same week 100k punters in Glastonbury were licking each others faces and climbing all over each other.
He is a woke virtue signalling melt who goes with the prevailing consensus even if it's completely wrong.
Clown
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@Steve said in The Current State of Rugby:
@mikedogz That clown Sumo Stevenson was on the Irish "second captains" podcast in the build up the first test. It's the most popular sports pod in Ireland.
They asked him about covid in the NZ camp and he came out with some of the biggest horseshit id ever heard.
He said he couldn't believe that the NZ team had gone and held an open training session in an area of NZ with the lowest vaccination rate. Blamed the players catching it on that. The podcast was on the same week 100k punters in Glastonbury were licking each others faces and climbing all over each other.
He is a woke virtue signalling melt who goes with the prevailing consensus even if it's completely wrong.
Clown
True. But he's right on some things too
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@NTA said in The Current State of Rugby:
@chimoaus said in The Current State of Rugby:
Surely the customers should dictate how a professional organisation structures its product. If you don't have people watching then your revenue is going to drop.
The 6N sells out stadiums every year.
Club rugby in Europe enjoys rude health.
I don't think they see a problem.I talk to club rugby guys all the time here.
They all agree there are colossal problems and fear for the game.
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You have to wonder if League were the smart ones when setting up a pro game because they could see the parts of Union that would cause problems. The obvious one being that defences could be way more organised so less players were needed.
Union is still trying to fit a game designed as an amateur sport into a pro environment and continually having to chase its tail or change things.
Probably why Union is still a very enjoyable watch at lower levels and a great game to play at those levels as well.
Faster, bigger, stronger and programmed defences hasn't worked well for the game. -
i thought Barnes reffed really well on the weekend. I like the way he manages a game, i like his communication, i like how he is all for letting the players sort out the game.
The massive problem here is, the huge disparity between the interpretations this week, and last week. Same two teams, same incidences, different ref, different outcomes.
