Planes
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@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
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In that podcast series I referenced last week about the Battle of Cresey (Cautionary Tales) there's an episode on a Russian airliner crashing because, amongst other reasons, they didn't trust the autopilot enough. (After initial fuck up the pilots and autopilot kept over riding each other.)
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In that podcast series I referenced last week about the Battle of Cresey (Cautionary Tales) there's an episode on a Russian airliner crashing because, amongst other reasons, they didn't trust the autopilot enough. (After initial fuck up the pilots and autopilot kept over riding each other.)
That was a really good episode. Because of the kids I kept wanting the outcome to be different despite the fact I knew the outcome.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
Yeah human's aren't as fuel efficient as the AP. Problem is they do so little actual flying, and have so few real emergencies, and fuck all sim practise - that when the shit does hit the fan most civvie airiner pilots are useless. Ex military at least have some experienc ein shit hitting the fan - fast jets are especially great at breaking down
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@Machpants said in Planes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
Yeah human's aren't as fuel efficient as the AP. Problem is they do so little actual flying, and have so few real emergencies, and fuck all sim practise - that when the shit does hit the fan most civvie airiner pilots are useless. Ex military at least have some experienc ein shit hitting the fan - fast jets are especially great at breaking down
šHeard that shit from so many ex military guys half of whom were fucking useless when the shit hit the fan. See how reliable a light aircraft is with PNG maintenance. I had 3 complete engine failures and 2 partials in 3 years. Doing up to 30 T/O and ldgs a day onto one way strips cut into,or up the side of a mountain taught a thing or two about the shit hitting the fan.
I probably have as many dead friends from my 3 years in PNG as you do.
Iāve done some sim instructing as well as 20+ years in airlines. Thereās fuck all difference between civil or military. Just some better pilots than others.
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One of my favourites on a good day. There was a crashed BN2 up against the side when I was there.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
I probably have as many dead friends from my 3 years in PNG as you do.
You had a cellar there too?
(Good to see you back. Hope all is well)
Thereās a code - my friends donāt end up in the cellar.
Not really back but will respond to shit when I see it. An AB loss for example.
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@Snowy feels like we get told military flying is harder due to the planes and mission objectives etc. But I guess commercial pilots clock up more hours? With a lot of that being on autopilot...
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@Machpants said in Planes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
Yeah human's aren't as fuel efficient as the AP. Problem is they do so little actual flying, and have so few real emergencies, and fuck all sim practise - that when the shit does hit the fan most civvie airiner pilots are useless. Ex military at least have some experienc ein shit hitting the fan - fast jets are especially great at breaking down
šHeard that shit from so many ex military guys half of whom were fucking useless when the shit hit the fan. See how reliable a light aircraft is with PNG maintenance. I had 3 complete engine failures and 2 partials in 3 years. Doing up to 30 T/O and ldgs a day onto one way strips cut into,or up the side of a mountain taught a thing or two about the shit hitting the fan.
I probably have as many dead friends from my 3 years in PNG as you do.
Iāve done some sim instructing as well as 20+ years in airlines. Thereās fuck all difference between civil or military. Just some better pilots than others.
@Machpants: So tell me ... who's the better pilot?
@Snowy: We're having a nice moment here. Let's not ruin it.
#Maverick&Iceman
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@Machpants said in Planes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
Yeah human's aren't as fuel efficient as the AP. Problem is they do so little actual flying, and have so few real emergencies, and fuck all sim practise - that when the shit does hit the fan most civvie airiner pilots are useless. Ex military at least have some experienc ein shit hitting the fan - fast jets are especially great at breaking down
šHeard that shit from so many ex military guys half of whom were fucking useless when the shit hit the fan. See how reliable a light aircraft is with PNG maintenance. I had 3 complete engine failures and 2 partials in 3 years. Doing up to 30 T/O and ldgs a day onto one way strips cut into,or up the side of a mountain taught a thing or two about the shit hitting the fan.
I probably have as many dead friends from my 3 years in PNG as you do.
Bloody hell itās Snowy.
Anyway, what I donāt get is why you would ever have got back in a plane, I mean ever, after that.
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@Machpants said in Planes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
Yeah human's aren't as fuel efficient as the AP. Problem is they do so little actual flying, and have so few real emergencies, and fuck all sim practise - that when the shit does hit the fan most civvie airiner pilots are useless. Ex military at least have some experienc ein shit hitting the fan - fast jets are especially great at breaking down
šHeard that shit from so many ex military guys half of whom were fucking useless when the shit hit the fan. See how reliable a light aircraft is with PNG maintenance. I had 3 complete engine failures and 2 partials in 3 years. Doing up to 30 T/O and ldgs a day onto one way strips cut into,or up the side of a mountain taught a thing or two about the shit hitting the fan.
I probably have as many dead friends from my 3 years in PNG as you do.
Iāve done some sim instructing as well as 20+ years in airlines. Thereās fuck all difference between civil or military. Just some better pilots than others.
I certainly aren't talking about guys like yourself, that's why I said civvie airliner pilots. Apologies I didn't make that clear. I know a lot of topdressing guys, they have a lot of experience when it's crap, Deer hunting heli pilots (uncle). But bog standard through the acadamys airline pilots, no thanks. BA pilots go front line with only one actual flight, and everything else is sim. They have no experience of actual stress, we all know that a sim is not the same as the real thing, despite regs. The difference between the hundreds of simulated Anti-SAM Defensive Maneuvres I did, and the handful of real ones is rather massive!
In the RAF we had 4 sim trips per month, everyone just FULL of emergency after emergency. I know from my mates in the airlines they do them twice a year. That's not enough IMO. And everything military I flew broke down regularly so you had real failures to get you ready.
And a generalisation obvs, as you said good and bad pilots
No insult intended
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@Machpants said in Planes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Planes:
@Machpants said in Planes:
Da Fuk?
Thread
Really common, when the plane's fly themselves and you're sitting in a comfy seat. Low arousal, long dull as shit days, literally nothing to do, etc. You doze off, normally just one pilot, but sometimes both. Humans are almost always the problem in aviation
Used to know a BA Captain who hated having ex-RAF pilots as second officers as "They want to fly the planes too much when they fly themselves. We're only there if things go wrong"
Yeah human's aren't as fuel efficient as the AP. Problem is they do so little actual flying, and have so few real emergencies, and fuck all sim practise - that when the shit does hit the fan most civvie airiner pilots are useless. Ex military at least have some experienc ein shit hitting the fan - fast jets are especially great at breaking down
šHeard that shit from so many ex military guys half of whom were fucking useless when the shit hit the fan. See how reliable a light aircraft is with PNG maintenance. I had 3 complete engine failures and 2 partials in 3 years. Doing up to 30 T/O and ldgs a day onto one way strips cut into,or up the side of a mountain taught a thing or two about the shit hitting the fan.
I probably have as many dead friends from my 3 years in PNG as you do.
Iāve done some sim instructing as well as 20+ years in airlines. Thereās fuck all difference between civil or military. Just some better pilots than others.
@Machpants: So tell me ... who's the better pilot?
@Snowy: We're having a nice moment here. Let's not ruin it.
#Maverick&Iceman
Snowy is the better pilot, I'm a Nav!
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@Machpants There was no offence taken. I had about 40% ex military guys (RAF, RAAF and CAF mostly) 30% ex top dressers ( not cross dressers but I did wonder), lots of bush pilots ( Canada, flying doctors, PNG etc, 30% cadets. All had their strengths.
One noticeable defect in some military guys was a superiority complex ( which was why I replied ) that made them terrible crew members. Even worse as Captains as they wouldnāt listen and were always right. Worse again if you had two of that ilk on one crew. Usually really good stick and rudder skills though as with the light aircraft guys.
Some us bush pilots were probably a bit āwildā anti authoritarian types. Some of the cadets whilst having little to no real experience knew the aircraft manuals by heart ( ask āConan the librarianā) if we had a tech fault.
Ideally you had a mix in each crew.
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@Paekakboyz said in Planes:
@Snowy feels like we get told military flying is harder due to the planes and mission objectives etc. But I guess commercial pilots clock up more hours? With a lot of that being on autopilot...
Completely different challenges really. As @Machpants said the military guys get plenty of sim time airline guys not so much. Big difference between military fast jet and military transport too.
Yes airline flying racks up the hours. Iāve got about 20,000 hours, so over 2 years airborne, and yes most of that with George in control. Hours of boredom interspersed with moments of sheer terror.
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@Machpants There was no offence taken. I had about 40% ex military guys (RAF, RAAF and CAF mostly) 30% ex top dressers ( not cross dressers but I did wonder), lots of bush pilots ( Canada, flying doctors, PNG etc, 30% cadets. All had their strengths.
One noticeable defect in some military guys was a superiority complex ( which was why I replied ) that made them terrible crew members. Even worse as Captains as they wouldnāt listen and were always right. Worse again if you had two of that ilk on one crew. Usually really good stick and rudder skills though as with the light aircraft guys.
Some us bush pilots were probably a bit āwildā anti authoritarian types. Some of the cadets whilst having little to no real experience knew the aircraft manuals by heart ( ask āConan the librarianā) if we had a tech fault.
Ideally you had a mix in each crew.
That's interesting, as my experience in the rotary and fast jet world is the opposite. I wonder how many were ex single seat types, do everything themselves? But pilots get assessed by navigators and vice versa, as all my aircraft were 2 plus crew. CRM was one of the most prized things, thus on ops you'd crew up, not chop and change like normal training etc. I've only a little experience with single seat types, and they did have a superiorly complex - but I was student filth at the time, so completely correctš¤£
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@Machpants Yeah, was talking single seat guys. A few ex red arrows spring to mind. A couple of them were also great. Would have thought team work would be ingrained in them, just some it seems.
The funny thing about CRM was that the guys that needed it the most poo pooed it.
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@Snowy That Goilala strip looks intenseā¦ Just wowā¦š³
Hope you are well šš»
