Most valuable player in WC to team
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@booboo said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@broughie said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
It is damning of "Super" rugby that the standard of play at 10 in both NZ and Australia has fallen off a cliff.
It starts way before Super Rugby. College Rugby and the effect of TV showings blowing smoke up young fellas is a big part. You can add to that the loss of any sort of apprenticeship for 10s and the desire of coaches at school/club levels to put big munters at 12 to get go forward and ask the 10 to just be a shoveller.
Agree with your post but just wondering where those big munters are at Super Rugby level? Must stop growing.
Found out.
Rugby gets hard when you start to play against adults, and they've not learned how to work hard as they haven't had to.
Partly and partly because size is relative. An early developer at school level can be average against other s once they grow.
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@cgrant said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
I am surprised no one has named Tyrell Lomax. THP is one of the most important positions in modern rugby and there is daylight between him and the rest.
One of my favourite players cg, when he first came back I was in raptures to see a prop who scrummed with such a straight back, personally reckon it allows for good scrumming locks behind to put all their power through them.
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@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
In the days when there were lots of scrums, and they were contestable, there was some merit in it. Now, hardly at all. Since the AB scrum will take the ball regardless of TH, we are talking about one extra quality possession a game with Lomax? That scarcely makes him the MVP.
Hooker throwing the ball to the lineout has far more bearing on quality possession nowadays. And he's part of the front row too.
If you want old-school, then our goal-kickers are far more likely to determine the winner than the TH prop. Jordie's ability to plug them from long range may well be key.
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@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
Red Beard and Bart would kill you if they were still around for a comment like this
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@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
In terms of defense, the THP is very important because he is usually the doorkeeper next to the rucks because he is among the lasts to get there after a scrum or a lineout. Remember the missed tackles by THPs which led to tries against the ABs this year.
Having a good scrum is a necessity, even if there aren't many during a game nowadays. Being penalized again and again because your THP is loosing his battle against the opposition's LHP could be decisive.
Moreover, I've pointed out Lomax because there is a huge gap between him and the rest. I know a hooker is probably a more important position than THP but if NZ loose Taukei'aho, there is still Taylor or even Coles behind him. -
@MN5 said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
Red Beard and Bart would kill you if they were still around for a comment like this
To be honest, there wasn’t enough discussion about it back then, it just became the accepted norm.
Reality is there probably isn’t a most important position.
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@Chester-Draws said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
In the days when there were lots of scrums, and they were contestable, there was some merit in it. Now, hardly at all. Since the AB scrum will take the ball regardless of TH, we are talking about one extra quality possession a game with Lomax? That scarcely makes him the MVP.
Hooker throwing the ball to the lineout has far more bearing on quality possession nowadays. And he's part of the front row too.
If you want old-school, then our goal-kickers are far more likely to determine the winner than the TH prop. Jordie's ability to plug them from long range may well be key.
As @cgrant mentions the THP value can be more in defense than attack.
You talk about goal kicking being important but that works both ways and scrumming for penalties is a NH specialty -
@Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Chester-Draws said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
In the days when there were lots of scrums, and they were contestable, there was some merit in it. Now, hardly at all. Since the AB scrum will take the ball regardless of TH, we are talking about one extra quality possession a game with Lomax? That scarcely makes him the MVP.
Hooker throwing the ball to the lineout has far more bearing on quality possession nowadays. And he's part of the front row too.
If you want old-school, then our goal-kickers are far more likely to determine the winner than the TH prop. Jordie's ability to plug them from long range may well be key.
As @cgrant mentions the THP value can be more in defense than attack.
You talk about goal kicking being important but that works both ways and scrumming for penalties is a NH specialtySouth Africa has moved 10000 miles north?
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@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Chester-Draws said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
In the days when there were lots of scrums, and they were contestable, there was some merit in it. Now, hardly at all. Since the AB scrum will take the ball regardless of TH, we are talking about one extra quality possession a game with Lomax? That scarcely makes him the MVP.
Hooker throwing the ball to the lineout has far more bearing on quality possession nowadays. And he's part of the front row too.
If you want old-school, then our goal-kickers are far more likely to determine the winner than the TH prop. Jordie's ability to plug them from long range may well be key.
As @cgrant mentions the THP value can be more in defense than attack.
You talk about goal kicking being important but that works both ways and scrumming for penalties is a NH specialtySouth Africa has moved 10000 miles north?
no, just all the white people
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@mariner4life said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Chester-Draws said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@MajorRage said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
What’s with all the THP is the most important position bullshit rising up again?
Never has been, never will be.
Good for scrums, useless elsewhere.
In the days when there were lots of scrums, and they were contestable, there was some merit in it. Now, hardly at all. Since the AB scrum will take the ball regardless of TH, we are talking about one extra quality possession a game with Lomax? That scarcely makes him the MVP.
Hooker throwing the ball to the lineout has far more bearing on quality possession nowadays. And he's part of the front row too.
If you want old-school, then our goal-kickers are far more likely to determine the winner than the TH prop. Jordie's ability to plug them from long range may well be key.
As @cgrant mentions the THP value can be more in defense than attack.
You talk about goal kicking being important but that works both ways and scrumming for penalties is a NH specialtySouth Africa has moved 10000 miles north?
no, just all the white people
Indeed. It’s basically Cape Durban Berg all around me
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@Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
As @cgrant mentions the THP value can be more in defense than attack.
You talk about goal kicking being important but that works both ways and scrumming for penalties is a NH specialtyI get that.
But losing Lomax is not going to be half as damaging to us as losing Jordie, between his kicking and what he brings to the back-line.
Sure, some other teams with reliable back-up kickers and no decent back-up THP might have it the other way round.
Italy's record against Australia does suggest that scrumming for penalties isn't quite the winning strategy some posit it to be. When they finally get a win, it was with only three penalties.
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@Chester-Draws said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
@Crucial said in Most valuable player in WC to team:
As @cgrant mentions the THP value can be more in defense than attack.
You talk about goal kicking being important but that works both ways and scrumming for penalties is a NH specialtyI get that.
But losing Lomax is not going to be half as damaging to us as losing Jordie, between his kicking and what he brings to the back-line.
Sure, some other teams with reliable back-up kickers and no decent back-up THP might have it the other way round.
Italy's record against Australia does suggest that scrumming for penalties isn't quite the winning strategy some posit it to be. When they finally get a win, it was with only three penalties.
And running rugby with pace. Go figure aye…
