All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2
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@Yeahtheboys while I am sure Roigard and Finau are learning alot and will be the better for being immersed in the AB Squad, it is frustrating that they havent had a shot, Roigard in particular given Christie is a bit of an issue at present, Finau possibly was a shot to come off the bench if SW was fit?
You'd have to think probably 18 or 19 of this side was penciled in before they left for Argentina.
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@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
What is the point in bringing Finau and Roigard into the squad if they won’t be used. The World Cup is so close and they’re just there to hold the tackle bags.
Are the starters for the ABs xv the actual back ups to the main ABs?
I doubt there is any hard and fast rule or approach, but it’s about giving opportunities where you want to especially on what are probably line ball calls on who makes it.
I think back to the 2007 RWC squad and there were guys that played in the France series and 3Ns that didn’t make the RWC squad.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Winger said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Not testing Roigard in the next 2 tests would be idiotic. I hope he starts in 1 and is a replacement in the other. And if he doesn't measure up then he shouldn't be in the RWC squad
I reckon he’s a good chance in the Bledisloe. Alternatively he’s just there for the experience and their 3rd choice halfback for the RWC is getting actual game time in the AB XV
I reckon he'll get a run in the Bled tests.
Quite what Fozzie does for those probably depends on whether we win this one.
If we do, we might see more experimentation for Bled 1. If we don't, he might have to pick something closer to his top team to quieten the naysayers.
Though hopefully he is at the point now where he would just say, "fuck them all" and do what he wants.
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I not surprised that Roigard and Finau are being held off until Wallabies, not saying I for it, just not surprised. A little surprised that Dmac given complete break in one way, but guess him playing full 80 last week was a clues. he has played an awfulr lot of minutes lately. Narawa I thought would drop for Jodan anyway. So although would have selected a little different , not completely stunned!
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Hoping Mathieu Raynal doesn’t play a big part in Saturday nights game ,you never know what you might get with this ref
On the upside , don’t muck around setting up your line-out or kicking to touch when you have a penalty ..😉 -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
DMac was not perfect...at least twice worried me running sideways ducking and weaving behind our line...BUT...he was looking to put people in holes or in space
Agree with that, his goal kicking doesn't fill me with confidence and he does more than his fair-share of lateral runs that go no-where across the field.
The problem with this weekend is that it feels like a missed opportunity for a fair comparison between the two players. They both need to be tested in the same conditions to see how they both perform.
Us being left with a "Dmac got an armchair ride by the forwards against the Ariges while RM got backfoot ball all day against SA" gives you no measure of how good - or bad either player was.
We'll be left with nothing but conjecture and opinion - which will keep the chat on the fern lively at least
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
DMac was not perfect...at least twice worried me running sideways ducking and weaving behind our line...BUT...he was looking to put people in holes or in space
Agree with that, his goal kicking doesn't fill me with confidence and he does more than his fair-share of lateral runs that go no-where across the field.
The problem with this weekend is that it feels like a missed opportunity for a fair comparison between the two players. They both need to be tested in the same conditions to see how they both perform.
Us being left with a "Dmac got an armchair ride by the forwards against the Ariges while RM got backfoot ball all day against SA" gives you no measure of how good - or bad either player was.
We'll be left with nothing but conjecture and opinion - which will keep the chat on the fern lively at least
Agree with all of that.
What was going on with his place kicking? It wasn't just that he was missing, they were going super high and wobbling like he had the yips - the first couple were very ugly and even some of the makes just looked odd.
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@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
Agree with all of that.
What was going on with his place kicking? It wasn't just that he was missing, they were going super high and wobbling like he had the yips - the first couple were very ugly and even some of the makes just looked odd.
I could only put it down to nerves myself - it's the worst he's kicked all year.
Maybe some more game time to build his confidence would be useful
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@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
DMac was not perfect...at least twice worried me running sideways ducking and weaving behind our line...BUT...he was looking to put people in holes or in space
Agree with that, his goal kicking doesn't fill me with confidence and he does more than his fair-share of lateral runs that go no-where across the field.
The problem with this weekend is that it feels like a missed opportunity for a fair comparison between the two players. They both need to be tested in the same conditions to see how they both perform.
Us being left with a "Dmac got an armchair ride by the forwards against the Ariges while RM got backfoot ball all day against SA" gives you no measure of how good - or bad either player was.
We'll be left with nothing but conjecture and opinion - which will keep the chat on the fern lively at least
What was going on with his place kicking? It wasn't just that he was missing, they were going super high and wobbling like he had the yips - the first couple were very ugly and even some of the makes just looked odd.
The Argies missed from that end as well - seemed to be high winds as soon as the ball went up.
You can't judge a kicker on one performance. Even Carter had off days - it's the body of work (and what they see in practice) that will sway decisions
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@Chris-B ...exactly, it is concerning. And if Havili had not been injured, or the props, we wouldn't know who our best options were at 1, 3, or 12 either. It would appear 'we haven't even got 2 figured out yet despite that being blindingly obvious for about 18 months.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
DMac was not perfect...at least twice worried me running sideways ducking and weaving behind our line...BUT...he was looking to put people in holes or in space
Agree with that, his goal kicking doesn't fill me with confidence and he does more than his fair-share of lateral runs that go no-where across the field.
The problem with this weekend is that it feels like a missed opportunity for a fair comparison between the two players. They both need to be tested in the same conditions to see how they both perform.
Us being left with a "Dmac got an armchair ride by the forwards against the Ariges while RM got backfoot ball all day against SA" gives you no measure of how good - or bad either player was.
We'll be left with nothing but conjecture and opinion - which will keep the chat on the fern lively at least
What was going on with his place kicking? It wasn't just that he was missing, they were going super high and wobbling like he had the yips - the first couple were very ugly and even some of the makes just looked odd.
The Argies missed from that end as well - seemed to be high winds as soon as the ball went up.
You can't judge a kicker on one performance. Even Carter had off days - it's the body of work (and what they see in practice) that will sway decisions
You’re saying I can’t write him off as a kicker based on about 5 attempts that I saw, and I have to look at years of stats and data from Chiefs games that I ignored?
That’s outrageous and I refuse to be bullied by you
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@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@reprobate said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo That's the thing though - he didn't have a blinder. And it was still the best our backline has functioned in a couple of years.
soooo, maybe it was more to do with our forwards and Smith then? Plus the midfield getting more and more chops?
Or maybe it's a first five who plays flat at the line and combines well with his backline (inside and out).
who knows - but I'll tell you one certainty - the knives will come out for RM when he gets rushed ball this week cos the forwards struggle for dominance (or maybe even parity), and because the midfield isn't able to break the gain line after receiving identical ball to last week...
Look, I'm no DMac hater - he did some great stuff last week. But we love to call RM a "rocks and diamonds" guy, and DMac's effort last week was the ultimate R&D showcase.
The reality is that we simply don't have the kind of 10 in our squad who can boss a game with his boot when territory is all important - they all look great behind dominant forwards, and bloody awful when time is taken away from them.
You're supporting the argument for those wanting to see Dmac - we want to see if he can bring that game against this side. Even if it was off the bench, we could get a gauge, but now we won't, and that's it as chances before the WC.
I also don't understand the bench at all.
They clearly don't trust McCloud, but he is the only 12, 13, and wing in the team. If they can't trust him to front when ALB is injured he shouldn't be there and they should have Nankivell or Heem or Goodhue, who would do that job well if needed.
They don't appear to trust most of the new boys, so I'm ready to stand by my point that Roigard, Finau, and McCloud will likely make way for players from the ABXV when we get to the WC. I reckon Akira, Weber, and ?? will get the call up for that squad.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
I’m not a big fan of Clarke’s performances as an AB, but I do like the extra size on the bench for impact.
Agreed but I do wish Clarke had more workrate and wasn't found out defending so often, the base attributes are there, but there are still kinks to iron out.
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I agree with the above, this is close to Foster et al's preferred no 1. team.
A shame the 10/15 axis has mostly been the indecisive and not very good at kicking duo.
I'm a bit concerned we won't have the edge to turn the SA line around quickly and they'll wear our side down by bulk, aggro and pressure. -
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
and DMac's effort last week was the ultimate R&D showcase.
'The ultimate rocks and diamonds showcase'. You think that's just a tad hyperbolic? On the charge down the Argies were miles offside and I remember he dropped a ball in the second half but the ultimate rocks and diamonds is way overboard.
DMac was not responsible for that charge down in my eyes.
First Smith plays silly buggers -- I think trying to milk a penalty. Then he throws a poor pass. Beauden Barrett doesn't like what he has to play with and so does what he always does in that situation -- shovels it on to someone in a worse position. DMac could then either hold the ball, and concede a 5 metre scrum to Argentina, or at least try to clear it.
He was put in a very bad situation, not really of his making.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks Vs Springboks RC Week 2:
That to me was the difference. The ABs tries weren't scored from individual brilliance they were tries created through manipulation - something that has been rare in the ABs for years.
Yes agree with that, the AB's have been a hard watch recently as so much of the attack seems to be based off someone pulling something out of their ass or throwing the ball around in the hope that one of our backs gets a 1:1 with a fatty in the defensive line.
Rugby is beautiful to watch when a defense is manipulated, space is created and people run into that space. Maybe it's just me - but when you outthink your opposition to score instead of just using brute force or flair it's just so much more pleasing.
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