World Cup Squad Positions
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@Paj said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Got a weekend coming up with a few mates and we have to bring our WC Squad predictions.
got a few ideas, but need a few thoughts on breakdown of squad in what think will be position wise?
3 hookers, two 1st fives etc?
Thoughts?
Is this spam? 😀
If it’s 31, it might be something like:
3 x hookers
5 x props
4 x locks
5 x loosies3 x halfbacks
2 x 1st 5’s
4 x midfielders
4 x outside backsI think there will be flexibility with some of those back positions.
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3x Hookers.
5x Props
4 x Locks (one of whom can play Backrow)
5x Loosies
3x Half Backs
3X First Fives
4x Midfield (One with utility)
4 x Outside BacksTaylor, Coles, Coltman,
Moody, Tu'inukuafe, Franks, Lomax, Tu'ungafasi,
Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Tuipulotu, Scott Barrett,
Squire, Frizzell, Ardie Savea, Cane, Read,
Aaron Smith, TJP, Weber,
Beauden Barrett, Mo'unga, Josh Ioane,
Crotty, ALB, Goodhue, Ennor,
Reiko Ioane, Bridge, Ben Smith, Jordie Barrett, -
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@ACT-Crusader I'm not a robot!
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@sparky said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Paj said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Got a weekend coming up with a few mates and we have to bring our WC Squad predictions.
Are your mates called Shag, Foz and Foxy? If so, we got ourselves a scoop.
Finally TSF gets the recognition it deserves.
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@Paj Nooooo keep TJ as half back please. Don't want hime near the 10 jersey. Can see the thinking, but nooooo. Otherwise we may as well move Rieko to centre...oh wait
Guess it will come down to whether taking 3 halfbacks are more important than 3 first fives, on the back of skill-set, goal-kicking etc.
Hate it when we make light of Namibia and Canada, they will be all out to do some damage. for sure -
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@ACT-Crusader said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Paj said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Got a weekend coming up with a few mates and we have to bring our WC Squad predictions.
got a few ideas, but need a few thoughts on breakdown of squad in what think will be position wise?
3 hookers, two 1st fives etc?
Thoughts?
Is this spam? 😀
If it’s 31, it might be something like:
3 x hookers
5 x props
4 x locks
5 x loosies3 x halfbacks
2 x 1st 5’s
4 x midfielders
4 x outside backsI think there will be flexibility with some of those back positions.
I reckon that mix is the most likely as well.
One other option I would consider is losing a midfielder for a loosie but as the midfield probably has to include SBW and Crotty and Goodhue plus the versatility of ALB, I doubt that would be considered for long.
2 Halfbacks AND 2 10s would be a big risk. -
@Crucial said in World Cup Squad Positions:
2 Halfbacks AND 2 10s would be a big risk.
Hansen said they were thinking of taking two halfbacks, but now DMac is injured they will definitely take three. The last back position is a 4th outside back or 3rd first-five.
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@Crucial On the other hand, I reckon that mix is no chance.
There's only 30 players.
I hope Sparky's mix is right and they take 3 first fives.
I can't really see Ennor displacing SBW (and Laumape), despite that he would give an additional wing option. I think it's more likely that we might see Lienert Brown given a run on the wing during TRC.
Lomax can't displace Laulala - he's required by the Mako!
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I don't think for a second that they'll take four specialist locks. Three and a utility, or two and two utilities. But these are just labels really.
The biggest variable in this mix for mine is how much faith they have in Barrett being able to play blindside.
They'll obviously take Whitelock, Retallick and Barrett and then probably one of Fifita and Hemopo. You could say that's three and a utility, or two and two utilities. There's a chance they'll take Tuipulotu and Barrett could take the Fifita/Hemopo spot.
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This is my first lick at a squad all year, I think. And this is who I think they'll pick. If I'm really unsure between two players, I've picked who I'd pick:
Taylor
Coles
Coltman (could easily be Harris)Moody LH
Karl T LH
Franks TH
Laulala TH
Ofa T TH LHRetallick
S Whitelock
S BarrettFifita BF L
Squire BF
Cane OF
Savea OF
Read 8
L Whitelock 8 BFA Smith
Perenara
DrummondB Barrett
Mo'unga
J IoaneALB 12 13
Crotty 12 13
SBW 12
Goodhue 13J Barrett W FB
R Ioane W
Bridge W
B Smith W FBI think they'll go safety first in several situations. Number 8 cover is one, where I don't think they'll use Savea except maybe as game day cover. I'm super keen on Ennor going, but I think they'll take the four proven performers in midfield and Bridge (who I don't consider a FB option at the highest level yet, same as Goodhue at 12) will be the fourth outside back, or Naholo.
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@shark said in World Cup Squad Positions:
I don't think for a second that they'll take four specialist locks.
I think they almost certainly will; Whitelock, Rettalick, Barrett and probably Patty T.
Rettalick and Whitelock are on a shortlist of players who would be given the Richie treatment and retained in the squad if they picked up a serious injury with a questionable prognosis where they might be able to return later in the tournament. I'll take either at 85% with a five week layoff in a potential semi-final and final over most other options. The selectors are unlikely to put themselves in a situation where they could be forced to make a call to send either one home because of inadequate cover. Along those lines Chicago was a good reality check on how grim things can be without legitimate locking.
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@rotated said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@shark said in World Cup Squad Positions:
I don't think for a second that they'll take four specialist locks.
I think they almost certainly will; Whitelock, Rettalick, Barrett and probably Patty T.
Rettalick and Whitelock are on a shortlist of players who would be given the Richie treatment and retained in the squad if they picked up a serious injury with a questionable prognosis where they might be able to return later in the tournament. I'll take either at 85% with a five week layoff in a potential semi-final and final over most other options. The selectors are unlikely to put themselves in a situation where they could be forced to make a call to send either one home because of inadequate cover. Along those lines Chicago was a good reality check on how grim things can be without legitimate locking.
Add to that their apparent satisfaction with Barrett as a blindside if required.
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@antipodean said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Add to that their apparent satisfaction with Barrett as a blindside if required.
Contrasted with their explicit dissatisfaction when Fifita is selected as a lock.
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@rotated said in World Cup Squad Positions:
I think they almost certainly will; Whitelock, Rettalick, Barrett and probably Patty T.
The coaches seem to rate Tuipulotu higher than TSF users do
I suspect he'll be on the bench against sides like Ireland/England etc. They've always commented on his ability to bend the line (assuming he doesn't drop the ball..)
However if one Whitelock/Retallick is injured, Barrett comes straight into the starting xv.
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@shark said in World Cup Squad Positions:
I don't think for a second that they'll take four specialist locks. Three and a utility, or two and two utilities. But these are just labels really.
The biggest variable in this mix for mine is how much faith they have in Barrett being able to play blindside.
They'll obviously take Whitelock, Retallick and Barrett and then probably one of Fifita and Hemopo. You could say that's three and a utility, or two and two utilities. There's a chance they'll take Tuipulotu and Barrett could take the Fifita/Hemopo spot.
I think they'll take four locks because they'll be reasonably confident in Barrett as a blindside option. I think the big game plan for locks and loosies will be:
Retallick plays 80
Whitelock probably plays 80
e.g. Squire - plays 50
Cane plays 80
Read plays 80Barrett covers lock and blindside if necessary - comes on if one of locks gets injured or fades. Or if we need height in the lineout - or if one of our 80 minute loosies is fading.
Ardie covers all three loosie positions plays 30 -
I agree that selectors likely to shoot for four locks, which means Patty T competing with Hemopo. Also expect that they'll go with two 10s and look for a fullback who can play 10 against Canada. Jordie seems to have the inside running. As for Luke W, he only gets in if Read is crocked. More likely he's only a plane trip away.
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@Duluth Well Blues players are hardly the most loved on this forum haha (apart from Rieko) but yeah, Pat's fitness seems to have improved a lot this season and is looking a lot busier around the field. He's certainly hitting much harder in the tackle to go with his strong ball carrying.
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@African-Monkey said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Well Blues players are hardly the most loved on this forum
Yeah, a reflection on the team they play for, not the individual's playing ability. Provincial bias is rife - and stupid - we all want the AB's to be as good as they can.
As for locks - world cup winning teams had a pretty much world best (for the time) lock in it.
Whetton (maybe a little debatable but certainly up there).
Eales
Weise and Strydom (that is debatable but that match was a bit "different")
Eales
Johnson
Matfield
Whitelock (and Thorn)
Rettalick and WhitelockWe will have to take specialist locks and hope that our top two stay fit IMO.
Obviously other positions are just as important but if your lineout isn't working, the kicking game falls apart and options become more limited. Scrums are largely a tight 5 effort and 2 of them are locks. Without even mentioning the ball running and passing game of our top 2 guys.
Barrett covering 6 (at a push) is a bonus. -
@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@African-Monkey said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Well Blues players are hardly the most loved on this forum
Yeah, a reflection on the team they play for, not the individual's playing ability. Provincial bias is rife - and stupid - we all want the AB's to be as good as they can.
As for locks - world cup winning teams had a pretty much world best (for the time) lock in it.
Whetton (maybe a little debatable but certainly up there).
Eales
Weise and Strydom (that is debatable but that match was a bit "different")
Eales
Johnson
Matfield
Whitelock (and Thorn)
Rettalick and WhitelockWe will have to take specialist locks and hope that our top two stay fit IMO.
Obviously other positions are just as important but if your lineout isn't working, the kicking game falls apart and options become more limited. Scrums are largely a tight 5 effort and 2 of them are locks. Without even mentioning the ball running and passing game of our top 2 guys.
Barrett covering 6 (at a push) is a bonus.I agree. Particularly as an ex-lock.
All great teams have had great locks.
Hill/White, Meads/Meads, Meads/Strahan, McBride/Thomas etc etc .... -
@Wally said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@African-Monkey said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Well Blues players are hardly the most loved on this forum
Yeah, a reflection on the team they play for, not the individual's playing ability. Provincial bias is rife - and stupid - we all want the AB's to be as good as they can.
As for locks - world cup winning teams had a pretty much world best (for the time) lock in it.
Whetton (maybe a little debatable but certainly up there).
Eales
Weise and Strydom (that is debatable but that match was a bit "different")
Eales
Johnson
Matfield
Whitelock (and Thorn)
Rettalick and WhitelockWe will have to take specialist locks and hope that our top two stay fit IMO.
Obviously other positions are just as important but if your lineout isn't working, the kicking game falls apart and options become more limited. Scrums are largely a tight 5 effort and 2 of them are locks. Without even mentioning the ball running and passing game of our top 2 guys.
Barrett covering 6 (at a push) is a bonus.I agree. Particularly as an ex-lock.
All great teams have had great locks.
Hill/White, Meads/Meads, Meads/Strahan, McBride/Thomas etc etc ....Not sure about that. Gray/Gray have been let down by some of the Scots teams they’ve been in
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@Wally said in World Cup Squad Positions:
All great teams have had great locks.
Hill/White, Meads/Meads, Meads/Strahan, McBride/Thomas etc etc ....Yeah, I chose an arbitrary starting point of RWCs.
When I had this discussion with my father in law (Welsh trialist in the 70s, but by no means a lock) we went back a bit further. Came to the same conclusion. AW Jones is pretty bloody good and Wales are now ranked #2.
7s and 10s get most of the hype / talk (in NZ anyway).
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@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Wally said in World Cup Squad Positions:
All great teams have had great locks.
Hill/White, Meads/Meads, Meads/Strahan, McBride/Thomas etc etc ....Yeah, I chose an arbitrary starting point of RWCs.
When I had this discussion with my father in law (Welsh trialist in the 70s, but by no means a lock) we went back a bit further. Came to the same conclusion. AW Jones is pretty bloody good and Wales are now ranked #2.
7s and 10s get most of the hype / talk (in NZ anyway).
True. Much as he tried Ali Williams could never get his face in as many woman’s magazines as Richie and Dan could.
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@MN5 said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Not sure about that. Gray/Gray have been let down by some of the Scots teams they’ve been in
You are looking at it in reverse - not all great locks got to play in great teams but most great teams had at least one great lock.
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@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@MN5 said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Not sure about that. Gray/Gray have been let down by some of the Scots teams they’ve been in
You are looking at it in reverse - not all great locks got to play in great teams but most great teams had at least one great lock.
Um can’t you argue this about every single position ?
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@MN5 said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@MN5 said in World Cup Squad Positions:
Not sure about that. Gray/Gray have been let down by some of the Scots teams they’ve been in
You are looking at it in reverse - not all great locks got to play in great teams but most great teams had at least one great lock.
Um can’t you argue this about every single position ?
I don't think so really. The Aussies for example had some pretty shit props for years but still manged to put out some greatish teams. Obviously they would have been a lot better with great props too but guys that could do the job were good enough. Just doesn't have the recurring theme that locks do. Not going to go through all positions.
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@Snowy so props don't really matter! I knew it!
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@Crazy-Horse said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Snowy so props don't really matter! I knew it!
I was really trying not to imply that!
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@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Crazy-Horse said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@Snowy so props don't really matter! I knew it!
I was really trying not to imply that!
Still a bit of a weird statement. What you should be saying is teams that win World Cups have great players in a number of positions with the odd not so great player in between.
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@Snowy said in World Cup Squad Positions:
@MN5 With the common denominator over all positions is a great lock (and 1st 5). Chances are you can get away with being weak somewhere on the field but the pattern is that the great teams have a great lock.
No. That's bollocks.
Lock just isn't the second most important position in a team.
You've taken some teams, and advanced a theory that fits those small number of teams. It's a bad case of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
But the rest of us watch rugby. And lock isn't more important than prop or hooker or halfback. Or second five or fullback.
Great teams have great players. Odds are, one of them is a lock. That's hardly proof you need a great lock to be a great team. It's proof you need great players to be a great team.
