Planes
-
"..less about technical deficiencies and more about crew training, competent morale, and sound tactical employment." That's the key point. Anywhere built up you have to have integrated infantry to support. A Challenger 2 was disabled during Telic with a molotov onto the engine grill behind the turret bustle, and a few other hits. You're never invincible - combined arms works.
Just like in the air, all of our losses, aside from accidents, were to simple small arms and/or unguided rockets - you can't 'flare off' those!
The Scorpion (scimitar versions) is still going with the Brits - very much up armoured and improved fire control - but you don;t want to use those 'incorrectly' either! They're being replaced by a wheeled vehicle, I think.
-
My favourite passenger plane to travel in is this ugly duckling
Such a roomy comfy plane. Apparently the pilots that flew her loved it. I still remember standing with the pilot on the flight deck during a holiday flight as a kid. One thing my kids won't get to experience because of the plane being withdrawn from general service and Johnny terrorist
Yeah they were popular to fly (known as Queen of the skies) but so were DC10s and quite a few others. There are still plenty of -400s flying in commercial pax service today. BA, KLM, Lufhansa all operate them still. Air China, Korean and Lufhansa all have -8s as well. Loads more as freighters. The biggest problem with them - cost. Pilots love 4 engines, as do fuel companies and engineers. Accountants not so much.
Correct that your kids won't be on an Air NZ one, nor on the flight deck, (unless you get a job flying one, then your kids are allowed). I don't think that will be for much longer either.
It took a lot of fun out of the job when flight deck visits were banned. We used to let pax up for take off and landing which most airlines had already stopped pre 9/11. Then they hid us behind bullet proof doors (in my case for the safety of the passengers from me, not the other way around, I think).
-
-
40th anniversary of the Erebus disaster coming up in a couple or weeks or so (28th Nov)
Stuff have released another fine podcast (shame their news site is such shit)
Couple episodes in plus have done a bit of catching up online with the history and facts.
Fuck me hard not to see this as a cover up at the highest level ( Air NZ were 100% govt owned back then and Muldoon was heavily involved)Did all they could to put all blame on the pilot despite the obvious fuck up of changing the programmed course the day before the flight and not informing the flight crew
-
40th anniversary of the Erebus disaster coming up in a couple or weeks or so (28th Nov)
Stuff have released another fine podcast (shame their news site is such shit)
Couple episodes in plus have done a bit of catching up online with the history and facts.
Fuck me hard not to see this as a cover up at the highest level ( Air NZ were 100% govt owned back then and Muldoon was heavily involved)Did all they could to put all blame on the pilot despite the obvious fuck up of changing the programmed course the day before the flight and not informing the flight crew
Will check out that podcast, cheers. Paul Holmes wrote a decent account of it called Daughters of Erebus .
Artist Sam Mahon is the son of Justice Mahon and said on an anniversary of the crash that his father came to stay with him the weekend before his report was released. He said it was unusual for him to visit and he spent the weekend by himself hunting rabbits, he must have known by trying to get the truth out he was going to destroy his own career.
-
40th anniversary of the Erebus disaster coming up in a couple or weeks or so (28th Nov)
Stuff have released another fine podcast (shame their news site is such shit)
Couple episodes in plus have done a bit of catching up online with the history and facts.
Fuck me hard not to see this as a cover up at the highest level ( Air NZ were 100% govt owned back then and Muldoon was heavily involved)Did all they could to put all blame on the pilot despite the obvious fuck up of changing the programmed course the day before the flight and not informing the flight crew
Will check out that podcast, cheers. Paul Holmes wrote a decent account of it called Daughters of Erebus .
Artist Sam Mahon is the son of Justice Mahon and said on an anniversary of the crash that his father came to stay with him the weekend before his report was released. He said it was unusual for him to visit and he spent the weekend by himself hunting rabbits, he must have known by trying to get the truth out he was going to destroy his own career.
From what I’ve read and heard so far Peter Mahon basically sacrificed his career when doing the royal commission. Sounds like he saw straight away the bull shit from the offical report by Chipendale. (sp)
Very dodgy shit took place after the crash like break ins, documents being destroyed etc -
@Snowy I went to the Boeing factory at Everett a few years ago. They use a lot of composite materials in them now. Awesome
Yeah, all modern aircraft are full of composites, 747-8 is no exception but wasn't a great seller. Stronger and lighter is indeed great stuff, but the 4 engine thing that I mentioned puts airlines off, unless they are flying difficult routes where ETOPS (now called EDTO) isn't viable with 2 burners.
-
Paul Holmes wrote a decent account of it called Daughters of Erebus .
I still haven't read that, mainly because I was no fan of Holmes when Air NZ was in a dispute with their pilots many years ago. He took a particularly one sided (and ignorant) view.
There are also quite a few people at Air NZ who would rather the whole Erebus topic is not discussed from both management and aviators sides. A bit taboo within the walls.
Strangely I did actually know one of the pilots daughters.
The podcast sounds good though.
-
@Snowy he dedicated the book to his father who was in the NZEF from 1939-1945 . Shame he didn’t get to write a book about him too .
For what it’s worth Warwick Roger who was probably no fan of Holmes after he gave evidence in his libel trial rated Holmes as a writer .
-
Imagine if Sir Ed was on board as supposed to be! Very interesting articles in Stuff.
Covering up/blaming still happens - look at the Kintyre Wokka crash or the 'Stan Nimrod one. The covering up is more around systematic failures to fix known problems cos of money.
-
Paul Holmes wrote a decent account of it called Daughters of Erebus .
I still haven't read that, mainly because I was no fan of Holmes when Air NZ was in a dispute with their pilots many years ago. He took a particularly one sided (and ignorant) view.
There are also quite a few people at Air NZ who would rather the whole Erebus topic is not discussed from both management and aviators sides. A bit taboo within the walls.
Strangely I did actually know one of the pilots daughters.
The podcast sounds good though.
Can see why it would be taboo, just a mess all round.
Hard not to see it as a major throwing the flight crew under the bus (so to speak) by A NZ.Interesting fact too is that Sir Edmond Hillary was supposed to be on the flight as the guide, was a late change that lead to someone else taking his spot.
-
Paul Holmes wrote a decent account of it called Daughters of Erebus .
I still haven't read that, mainly because I was no fan of Holmes when Air NZ was in a dispute with their pilots many years ago. He took a particularly one sided (and ignorant) view.
There are also quite a few people at Air NZ who would rather the whole Erebus topic is not discussed from both management and aviators sides. A bit taboo within the walls.
Strangely I did actually know one of the pilots daughters.
The podcast sounds good though.
Can see why it would be taboo, just a mess all round.
Hard not to see it as a major throwing the flight crew under the bus (so to speak) by A NZ.Interesting fact too is that Sir Edmond Hillary was supposed to be on the flight as the guide, was a late change that lead to someone else taking his spot.
It was his mate Mulgrew that switched wasn’t it ? He ended up in a relationship with his widow after losing his own wife in a plane crash
-
Paul Holmes wrote a decent account of it called Daughters of Erebus .
I still haven't read that, mainly because I was no fan of Holmes when Air NZ was in a dispute with their pilots many years ago. He took a particularly one sided (and ignorant) view.
There are also quite a few people at Air NZ who would rather the whole Erebus topic is not discussed from both management and aviators sides. A bit taboo within the walls.
Strangely I did actually know one of the pilots daughters.
The podcast sounds good though.
Can see why it would be taboo, just a mess all round.
Hard not to see it as a major throwing the flight crew under the bus (so to speak) by A NZ.Interesting fact too is that Sir Edmond Hillary was supposed to be on the flight as the guide, was a late change that lead to someone else taking his spot.
It was his mate Mulgrew that switched wasn’t it ? He ended up in a relationship with his widow after losing his own wife in a plane crash
Beat me to it. Yes, June is his widow
-
-
There are plenty of stories about people who could have been on the flight but weren't for one reason or another. Paul Dykzeul's story is one of those highlighted in White Silence.
Similar with Hillsborough , lots of people who couldn’t make the game and gave their tickets away to people who then got killed have gone on to kill themselves .
-
Pretty harrowing listening to the guys who had the fun task of collecting the bodies (parts) from the crash.
The term body grease is used a bit, plus they had to fight off local birds who kept trying to eat the dead.
Sounds like no one knew what they were doing, just something that had never happened before in our history -
Pretty harrowing listening to the guys who had the fun task of collecting the bodies (parts) from the crash.
The term body grease is used a bit, plus they had to fight off local birds who kept trying to eat the dead.
Sounds like no one knew what they were doing, just something that had never happened before in our historyThere was a TV movie made about it a few years back , they saved up all the alcohol that survived the crash and after they got the last body sorted out they drank all the booze .
-
Hard not to see it as a major throwing the flight crew under the bus (so to speak) by A NZ.
Yep. Hence the "we don't talk about fight club" attitude. They have changed a lot though over the last 40 years so lessons were learnt all around.
There was a TV movie made about it a few years back ,
"Operation overdue" or something. That was actually pretty good.
-
Found it:
"Erebus Operation overdue"
"Within hours 11 ordinary police officers were called to duty to face the formidable Mount Erebus. As the police recovered the victims, an investigation team tried to uncover the mystery of how a jet could fly into a mountain in broad daylight. Did the airline have a secret it wanted to bury? This film tells the story of four New Zealand police officers who went to Antarctica as part of the police operation to recover the victims of the crash. "The bold bit, well, it requires no further comment other than "whiteout".
This is a great quote:
*“There’s nothing worse than the fear of the unknown.
And the known wasn’t particularly good either.”- Stuart Leighton*
